In this episode of Get Your Marriage On!, we’re diving into gridlock—the moments in marriage where no matter what you choose, it feels like you lose. These conflicts can leave you wondering if you married the right person or why your spouse can’t see things your way.
But conflict itself isn’t the problem—how you handle it is. And since sex is often the biggest source of gridlock, it can also be the greatest opportunity for growth and deeper intimacy. We’ll explore a real-life example of what happens when one spouse pressures the other with their sexual fantasies, and how that cycle of placating, resentment, and withdrawal can be transformed into honest intimacy instead.
By the end, you’ll see how even sexual disagreements can become invitations to stretch, grow, and build a more passionate, connected marriage.
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Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Hey everyone. How has Sextember gone for you? Emily and I have really enjoyed our month so far, and we’re inspired by what you’ve told us about your experience with Sextember, and I just want to thank you for really investing in your marriage if you’re [00:01:00] participating or not. Thank you for being here today and listening to this podcast.
I really put my heart into these episodes because I really believe with all my heart that the world needs stronger and more intimate marriages today than ever. And that’s what’s prompted the topic that I wanna talk about today. Do you ever feel like in your marriage, you’re in a situation where you wanna keep your spouse happy with you, but at the same time you’d feel resentful if you gave in kind of like a damned if I do, damned if I don’t type of a situation, or do you ever find that in your marriage you and your spouse want opposite things and there really isn’t a clear way for both of you to be happy at the same time?
I use the term gridlock to describe these types of situations, and I believe every normal healthy marriage has three to 10 gridlock issues, and my own marriage is no exception. Now, some gridlock issues are really significant and they can cause a lot of anxiety and stress in the relationship. So when you’re [00:02:00] in these like gridlock situations and it’s, you know, anxious and stressful, it’s common to wonder like, where did we go wrong?
Did I even marry the right person? Or how come my spouse just can’t see things the way I see them? Why won’t they just, you know, change or. Do what I want them to do, and I believe conflicts in and of themselves are not what defines a marriage, but rather how a couple chooses to handle the conflicts.
That’s what defines the marriage. And it may not surprise you that sex is often the number one source of gridlock conflict. This also means sex is also the number one source for personal growth, personal transformation, and deeper intimacy. In the marriage, you may have not have thought of sex in that way, but I hopefully by the end of this episode, you’ll see how sex can help you grow as a person and actually, bring more aliveness and love into your life.
Although [00:03:00] these tug of wars within yourself and within your marriage can be a hotbed for conflict today, I want to challenge you to view things differently. Gridlock conflicts are an untapped source of growing deeper intimacy in your marriage. Even sexual conflicts in our marriage are actually invitations for you to grow.
Up to be more intimate, to learn how to love better. So by the end of this episode, hopefully you’ll have a deeper appreciation for your conflicts and how you can actually use them to help grow who you are rather than be controlled by them. And I want to help you find solutions on the path forward in your dilemmas.
I also want to tell you that registration is now open for upcoming in-person couples retreat, and it’s April 8th through 12th, 2026. So this is our in-person event where we do a deep dive into all things intimacy in our marriage. It’s limited to a small group to keep things well intimate. It’s four days and four nights of [00:04:00] romance.
Memories and deep insights and lots of fun. Our retreats are fun. We do a lot of things outdoors. We do things indoors. There’s dance instruction. We have a yoga instructor coming. We do like, uh, ATVing and canyoneering in the canyons. It’s, we take advantage of the beauty of Southern Utah. it’s not just like you’re in a, you know.
Lame hotel conference room. You and your spouse are actually really deeply connecting for four days. Four nights, and we have wonderful food and everything now. It is not for everyone. You have to apply to come to the retreat, but it’s free to apply. We’re looking for couples who are in an otherwise happy marriage, but wish things could be better when it came to sexual intimacy.
You won’t wanna pass up this opportunity. And as of this recording, we have about nine spots left. You’ll find all the details at Get Your Marriage on.com, click events, and then look for Couples Retreat. And then, you’ll see all the details there. [00:05:00] Okay, today we’re talking about gridlock and conflict. I want you to consider this scenario, this hypothetical couple has been married over 14 years, and they love each other.
They’re getting out of the little baby phase of parenting and now wanting a more meaningful, intimate marriage. She’s been wanting him to open up more, ensure about his thoughts and his feelings, while the husband also has a history of shutting down and withdrawing and kind of not really being open with his heart.
Um, and he does that as a way of kind of protecting himself. It’s his way of managing his emotions when he doesn’t feel really heard or seen, especially by his wife. Now, the wife loves it when her husband is open and is emotionally close, so when he withdraws, it’s particularly painful for her. So she has a history of placating or giving in to keep him happy so that he won’t go away.
But in the process, she feels like she’s disconnected from herself or worse, feels like she’s betrayed herself in the process. This [00:06:00] especially comes up when they have differing desires for sex. He wants more novelty, and she, I guess you can say she likes vanilla. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
So, uh, he wants something different. She wants the same and, uh. He withdraws ’cause he’s hurt. She doesn’t like that. He withdraws, she placates, she collapses and gives in and at the same time, she feels like she’s betraying herself and around it goes. Anyway, this couple’s been working really hard and growing their sexual friendship and they decided recently.
To be more open in sharing fantasies with each other in a way to build more intimacy. So, uh, this is new territory for them anyway. Let’s listen in on a AI generated recent conversation that they had.
Hey babe. Uh, you know how we talked about how you want me to be more open with you? Um, even about my fantasies and stuff? Mm-hmm. I’ve been wondering can we try, um, [00:07:00] videoing ourselves next time? Uh, like with a tripod and phone or something? Yeah. Uh, I don’t know how I feel about that idea. Uh, is it that you’re afraid or.
Video will get leaked or something. Yeah, I suppose, um, there’s actually lots of problems I have with the idea. I want to be a good wife and listen to what matters to you. I guess the idea of me in a video having sex is really off-putting for me right now, but it would be such a turn on for me. You’re so sexy, babe.
I, uh, want to see you in this way. And it would push both of us out of our comfort zone. Um, what if, uh, we pulled our large mirror out of our walk-in closet [00:08:00] and, uh, put it by the bed and do it there instead? You can still see us doing it. Don’t we already do that? Sometimes. Is it not good enough for you?
Why record it? You are super hot. And I get turned on by the thought of being able to replay our moment together. But, you know, this really pushes me, um, outside of what I want to do. I don’t feel comfortable with it, but I want you to be open with me. How about just try it. This is hard for me because I’m trying to be more open with you and more vulnerable, but I don’t feel safe opening up to you.
I feel like if I were to try it, I would feel resentful. I hate feeling resentful towards you. Nevermind.
. Okay. Do you see the conflict here with this couple? Now, if you’re the [00:09:00] wife in this scenario, how do you find a balance between your personal dignity and self-respect, what you’re comfortable doing sexually and your spouse’s fantasies and invitations to push the limits of sexual fantasies in your marriage?
If you’re the husband in this scenario, how do you balance between being open with your fantasies and desires and risking, feeling rejected or judged yet? Honor your wife’s sense of comfort and her willingness to engage with you. Do you see how there’s a gridlock opportunity here, uh, in other words, an opportunity for this couple to really grow?
Now there’s many ways to look at this scenario, and today, for sake of time, let’s just look at three ideas to, on how this couple could use this conflict as a way to spur their development and growth. Principle number one. We tend to look to others to validate our sexual fantasies. Part of what makes marriage wonderful and feel so good is that someone else agrees with you. They see that you’re a great person too. They [00:10:00] see the best in you. They admire you.
They think you’re cute, they think you’re beautiful. finally someone else, uh, agrees with me that I’m a smart guy or funny or whatever it is, right? It feels really good when someone that matters to us, likes us back. The validation we get from our spouse is absolutely wonderful, and it feels really good, and this is a natural part of any healthy relationship.
Lots of healthy, happy validation going on. And it’s normal for people to look to others to get a sense of who they are, and it’s because it’s a very strong human drive for us to want to fit in, especially with people that matter a lot to us. Think as a child growing up, when someone that mattered to you said, you know, you’re really smart, or You’re good at math, or you’re really good at basketball, you internalize that think they think I’m good at math, I am good at math.
They think I’m good at basketball. I’m good at basketball or whatever it is. We tend to take on, the mental model of what others see in us [00:11:00] personally. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s just our development and that’s how we kind of grow and we, we bring that into our marriage. So when our spouse thinks a certain way about us, we tend to, internalize that and fill that within us too.
But. Have you ever been in a situation where you want to fit in with a group so badly, but at the same time fitting in would mean betraying part of yourself or one of your values? And in that scenario, what did you end up doing? for me personally, I struggle sometimes in social settings when someone asks me what I do for a living.
I feel like if I told people what I really do, which is helping married Christian couples have super awesome sex lives, they might get the wrong impression about me and think, I dunno, I’m some sort of a sex addict or, or something. So sometimes I feel really tempted to give a more socially acceptable answer, but at the same time, I feel like a betrayed part of me.
By not telling them what I’m really passionate about and what I really believe in, [00:12:00] it’s a risk, right? On the other hand, if I were to introduce myself to someone, and if I were to really own it. At the risk of someone else kind of having different thoughts about me than I would want them to have. Not because I don’t care about what they think.
I really do care about what others think, but I’m more invested in me being true to myself than what others might think about me, which is really outta my control. Think, guess what? I’ve invited the other person. To know the real me and not like a hologram projection of me. What I want them to think about me.
In other words, I’m inviting them to know me more, and that is more intimate. This might be a benign example, right? Introducing myself to others, but when it comes to an intimate marriage, when the pool to be validated from our spouse exceeds our ability to really trust ourselves and be authentic. It limits our ability to be really intimate.
Real intimacy can only come from our ability to know ourselves and to reveal it [00:13:00] to the one person that matters the most to us. Dr. David Schnat, who wrote a great book called Passionate Marriage, he says it this way. How can you tell the difference between these two types of intimacy, other validated intimacy? Sounds like I’ll tell you about myself, but only if you then tell me about yourself.
And if you don’t, I won’t either. But I want to, so you have to, I’ll go first and then you’ll be obligated to disclose. It’s only fair. And if I go first, you have to make me feel secure. I need to be able to trust you. Now, the other kind of intimacy, according to Dr. David Narz, sounds like this. He calls it self validated intimacy.
This is like the scenario of like me introducing myself to a stranger about what I do for a living is where if I. really believed in what I did at the risk of them getting a wrong idea about me, right? That’s more self validated. here’s what he would say. I don’t expect you to agree with me.
You weren’t put on the face of the earth to validate and [00:14:00] reinforce me, but I want you to love me. You can’t really do that if you don’t know me. I don’t want your rejection. But I must face that possibility. If I’m ever to feel accepted or secure with you, it’s time to show myself to you and confront my separateness and morality one day when we are no longer together on this earth.
I want to know you knew me. Do you see one is more interested in getting security? the security meaning, I want you to. conform to what I think, I want you to think the way I do, whereas the, the latter is more interested in wanting to know another person and then to be known. and those are really different things.
The only way to have real intimacy is when you really know. In fact, another way to say intimacy is into me. See, it’s inviting another person to really know you at a deep level. So in the vignette of the couple that we use to open this episode, the [00:15:00] husband is probably unsure about his own sexual fantasy.
He himself can’t look himself in the eye and determine if it’s a good thing to do. So he is looking to his wife to validate his fantasy, and when she doesn’t validate him, when he doesn’t get the validation he wants in return, he makes it mean there’s something wrong about himself or like a rejection of him.
Uh, hypothetical better response for him. Could be for him to be less defensive when his wife doesn’t agree with his fantasy, to put his ego aside and instead lean in more, to be more interested in what she thinks about it. Also, for him to develop the ability not to withdraw, but rather. Reveal his mind and desire to know her mind, even if it’s different, even if it doesn’t mean she’s going to agree with everything that he thinks.
This is how you create room for two people in a marriage, two opinions, two individuals, two distinct people, right? Rather than requiring [00:16:00] only one opinion or one person to prevail in the marriage. Which, by the way, is usually the lower desire person or the less invested partner prevailing. That’s not a great way to run an intimate marriage.
You want to,
Dan: hi, Dan here and thank you for listening to this episode. Let me interrupt real quick and ask you, are you interested in taking the intimate relationship in your marriage to the next level? We have a program designed just for that. It’s actually designed for couples who are in otherwise great marriages, but wish things were better when it came to sexual intimacy.
It has helped hundreds of couples already. It’s a real deep dive into intimacy, and it’s a fantastic and affordable program. It’s really hands-on. It’s personalized to you. And very in depth, and it’s great for couples and your spouse might be hesitant to try it, but I promise, get on a free welcome call with me or one of my team members and just learn to see if this is really a good fit for you to help you with your marriage goals and your intimacy goals.
Because cut your misery short. Have a [00:17:00] greater marriage now, and not have to wade through years of difficulty and pain. cut it short. Enjoy what your marriage is intended to have now. so check out the program. You’ll find out on my website. Get your marriage on.com. Thanks. Now back to the show. all right.
Principle number two today is watch for emotional reactivity and put your thinking brain on. When it comes to gridlock issues in your marriage, they form a predictable pattern. Person A says This person B responds in this predictable way, which triggers person A to react in this other predictable way, which in response person B is also triggered and responds.
And you know, around and around, around it goes. I highly recommend you and your spouse take out a pen and paper and see if you can map out step by step your predictable patterns around one of your gridlock issues in your marriage. So in this couple, the husband has this predictable pattern of, with withdrawing to soothe his own feelings.
The wife hates it when [00:18:00] he withdraws, so she has a pattern of giving in or placating him.
He can exploit this tendency in her to his advantage and withdraw. Just enough to put pressure on her to finally give in to give him what he really wants, but it’s at the cost of passion because she’s not really choosing him to step in. She’s just placating him, and that’s not the same thing. On the flip side, she can use his vulnerability or difficulty of not opening up to her advantage.
To help her feel superior to him and act like she’s the more responsible, reasonable one in the marriage, and she’s got it all put together and he’s the deviant, however you look at it, however you shine a light on this pattern, you’ll see where each individual is acting in response to the other. It’s about functioning or behaving out of like emotional reactivity rather than actually thinking through.
Like a more principled [00:19:00] or value-based way on how each person contributes to the scenario. So one possible way this husband can put this into practice could sound like this. He might say this. Look, I see you’re not a fan of the idea of us filming ourselves in the bedroom. I have a tendency in me to want to withdraw and I feel hurt because at least if I feel hurt in it, I feel justified. Like, uh, at least I can say you don’t like my fantasies. And in a strange way, I kind of feel better about myself in the short term.
’cause I, I get angry and I get angry at you and, uh, I feel justified in that anger. But I actually don’t always feel better because we keep playing out this pattern in our marriage. What I really want is not to withdraw. I really want to be with you. Even if you don’t like my ideas, I want to know you two, and I know your ideas too.
I want to know what you honestly think. ’cause if [00:20:00] we’re gonna love each other better in this marriage. It’s gonna come from really knowing each other, not from hiding parts of ourselves, or you just placating or coming along to make me feel better or me withdrawing. It’s gonna come from us being a little more honest and grown up about this.
Do you see how that feels so different? Okay. Principle number three is called Growing and Stretching. By the way, there is no strategy or step-by-step guide or path to solving gridlock issues in your marriage. Even Dr.
John Gottman, one of the country’s most revered marriage researchers, said once that you actually can’t solve or don’t solve gridlock issues in your marriage. Rather you learn how to like live with them or work around them like you would live with a, let’s say, a trick knee or a sore back. And I think I see where Dr.
Gottman is coming from and he’s reporting what he’s observed in his own research lab, but I actually think that’s a pessimistic [00:21:00] view. I know from my own experience in my own marriage and with working with hundreds of couples in my coaching program that you actually can solve your gridlock issues.
But it’s not a step by step like, do 1, 2, 3, say this, say that. Like you would expect. There is no strategy, there is no formula. Rather than solving your gridlock issues, you grow out of your gridlock issues. Albert Einstein is attributed to saying, we cannot solve our problems at the same level of thinking we used to create them.
In other words, any current problem can’t be solved at the level you’re at. You must get a wider perspective. Raise your level of intelligence. Get more light on this. Uh, see things that you’re not willing to see or can’t see. Check your blind spots and you must change your mind in order to grow out of your gridlock issues.
If you and your spouse both feel like your current gridlock issues. Feels like it’s stretching you and growing who you are as a person. [00:22:00] As a couple, you’re, no, you’re definitely on the right track. Growth is hard and uncomfortable, but that’s why so many marriages stick with the status quo and a doc, Dr. Gottman’s attitude of learning to just deal with the gridlock issues like status quo, is it? But I’ve never met a couple with a marriage high in passion that’s also not growing and stretching. It’s almost as if passion and growth and stretching are all one in the same day.
They come together in the same package. Selfishness is often the reason why we choose not to grow. A refusal to grow is often driven by fear or trying to control something outside of you, ’cause you don’t want to take an honest look at something inside of you. This is true in a gospel sense as well. The greatest miracles Jesus performed always included some uncomfortable stretching of faith or spiritual exertion on the part of the recipient of that blessing.
Think of the woman [00:23:00] healed at the 12 years issue of blood, or Jesus raising Jerry’s daughter from the dead or the lame man at the pool of Bethesda. There’s always some sort of stretching or faith or exertion involved in each of those scenarios. So in the case of this couple growth might look like the wife may be considering why she’s so opposed to being filmed.
And challenge those beliefs perhaps, or for her, it could also look like taking a deep look into her tendency to fold into what her husband wants sexually, to keep the peace in the marriage while kind of betraying herself in the process, and instead develop the strength to put up with temporarily disappointing her husband while being more true to herself so that she can love him better.
Those are just some examples. For him, it might look like understanding his beliefs around why this particular fantasy is so meaningful to him and why it feels urgent to him. Is he trying to prove something or is he trying to create an intimate experience? He can also [00:24:00] challenge his pattern of withdrawing.
Those are just some examples. Again, I believe growth and stretching, even enduring some discomfort at times is the way outta gridlock issues. What growth looks like for you is gonna be specific to you and your circumstances in your marriage. But by the way, that’s also where passion and real love are born.
One last thing I wanna say about that is the most passionate marriages that I know have this high level of honesty with each other, and humility. Humility isn’t like a basing yourself By humility I mean this other definition of you’re setting aside your ego to care more about what’s true. It’s like a commitment to the truth, not how you want others to see it, or.
if the truth is inconvenient and doesn’t put you in a good light, then let’s ignore that truth. That’s like ego getting in the way. Real humility is setting that aside and honesty is about, let’s be honest here, we keep having this argument over and [00:25:00] over and it’s really not about the filming of us in the bedroom.
It’s really about you trying to get your way and you withdrawing to get me to placate you and. there’s no passion in that. Let’s be honest about what’s really going on here. How can we work better together through this? What I want for us is a better, more intimate marriage. That’s like an example, but it’s really about being really honest with each other, and that is how you build an intimate, sexy, hot, passionate marriage.
In conclusion, aliveness and passion in a relationship always show up when you’re at the edge of your development. So our conflicts in marriage, even those that feel like gridlock are invitations for us to grow, stretch, and transform who we are. Okay. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what it really means to love someone.
In order to really love another person, it often means we need to set aside our egos and selfish agendas and be really willing to know another person, even if their [00:26:00] views conflict with ours, or even if we disagree with their views, at least be willing to see it. And I think this is why love is such a rare commodity on Earth Also.
This is why I think the two greatest commandments are about loving. Anyway, I challenge you to take a close look at your gridlock issues and use them for your growth. And if you have gridlock issues in your marriage and you want some help growing through them, right? If you want to experience passion, aliveness, freedom, and deeper love in your relationship.
I wanna invite you to the free training that we have on our website at Get Your Marriage on.com. Hundreds of couples have benefited from the resources that we offer, especially our coaching program at Get Your Marriage on.com. And I also wanna invite you to join our private Facebook group, which I’ll link to in the description below this episode to continue this discussion.
Thank you for listening. Please share this episode with your married friends. I promise that we’ll, thank you for life and please go get your [00:27:00] marriage on.
