What happens when you’re having sex regularly—but it still feels empty?
In this episode, Roberth and Laticia share their honest journey through desire differences, duty sex, resentment, and the painful belief that something must be wrong with one (or both) of them. Around the 10-year mark in their marriage, sex turned into a power struggle: Roberth wanted more, and Laticia felt like she could never be enough. Therapy didn’t bring clarity—it left them feeling even more stuck.
They eventually discovered that the problem wasn’t lack of effort or attraction. They were missing skills—like understanding pleasure, learning about female anatomy, making space for emotional connection, and recognizing the difference between responsive and spontaneous desire. They also learned how often sex had become a way to manage each other’s emotions instead of a place for true connection.
You’ll hear the breakthroughs that helped them move from “empty sex” to a more connected, confident, and collaborative intimate relationship, plus practical language for couples who feel stuck in the same cycle.
If you’ve ever thought, “Why does this still feel disconnected?” or “Am I broken for not wanting sex more?” this conversation will give you hope and a clearer next step forward.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode
- Come As You Are
- Becoming Cliterate
- Get Your Marriage On Coaching Program
- Men’s Only and Women’s Only Cohorts (starting in January)
- Intimately Us & Just Between Us apps
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Roberth & Laticia (2): [00:00:00] there was something missing. I thought, I’m like, oh, well, if, you know, if something’s missing, then the more we have sex.
Dan: Uhhuh
Roberth & Laticia (2): Then I think it’ll fix it
Dan: right.
Roberth & Laticia (2): not realizing that obviously it’s, there’s more to it. It wasn’t resolving the root cause of the issue. Yeah. ’cause I walked out of there feeling broken and like I was the problem. And no matter how hard I tried, you know, it was like never enough kind of thing.
Hey, happy New Year everyone. I hope you had a great holiday season. I wanna start this new year [00:01:00] off with this special podcast episode I recorded with a very special couple. This is Robert and Leticia, and I’m so grateful that they’re brave enough to come on the podcast and share their whole story so openly and vulnerably with everyone.
Dan: I benefit so much from hearing stories like these, and I’m sure you will too. This couple you’re about to meet at about the 10 year mark in marriage is when sex became a power struggle between them. Robert wanted a lot, Leticia didn’t, and they were wrestling with these desire differences and then duty, sex, and then resentment, and a belief that something must be wrong with one or both of them.
What I love about their journey is how they learned the missing skills, which they’ll talk about in depth. And these are things like understanding pleasure. Understanding female anatomy and how wanting more sex to solve empty sex actually leads to disconnection, not connection. The value of self-authoring, which is deciding for yourself who you want to be in the face of your challenges in [00:02:00] relationship, and how to stop managing each other’s emotions through sex.
These are all one of the many layers that we’re gonna learn and uncover in this conversation today. So if you ever thought, Hey, we’re doing it, but why does it feel so empty? Or, I must be so broken, I don’t even desire sex, and I should, and I should want my husband, or I should want my wife more. Well, this conversation hopefully will give you that language, that hope and your next practical step on what to do.
If you like this podcast and want more for 2026 for your marriage, I have a few wonderful opportunities for you. First is we’re doing our first ever cruise and this is in the Western Caribbean in October. We’re selling out of Galveston, Texas and it is a get your marriage on cruise. You get a work with me and my team over six nights, seven days.
We’re doing a deep dive on intimacy in a beautiful and very romantic setting. All those details are on our website at Get Your Marriage on.com and click events. We’re [00:03:00] also starting our men’s and women’s small group coaching programs. These are the programs that, Robert and Leticia, my guest on my podcast today allude to.
In this conversation we have just a few openings ’cause it’s limited to just six to 10 women and six to 10 men. So you’ll find those details on our website also. And you wanna hurry and register for those. And around Valentine’s Day, we are doing a virtual getaway. This is where you send our kids to grandma’s house or you get your own hotel room and join me remotely.
I walk you through a deep dive on how to transform having sex into making love with a few sexual practices that I’ll teach, that you get to practice as sexy. Homework is a fantastic opportunity to draw closer to your spouse and deepen your friendship and relationship.
You’ll find those details on our website also. All right, now you get to meet this wonderful couple, Robert and Leticia. Let’s dive in.
Robert and Leticia, welcome to the Get Your Marriage On Podcast. How are you today?
Roberth & Laticia (2): We are doing great. We’re excited. Be [00:04:00] here. Awesome. A little nervous too.
Dan: Tell everyone the amazing story about how you two met.
Roberth & Laticia (2): So
Dan: romantic.
Roberth & Laticia (2): we were out with a group of friends and we were on an, at Sundance, which is a ski resort in Utah. And they have a moonlight ski lift ride,
Dan: Okay.
Roberth & Laticia (2): um, around autumn time. And so, um. We rode up in the same car together. Robert kind of made that happen, right? I was just sort of along for the ride.
and then he got in line with me so that he could sit on the ski lift ride with me. And we had two other friends that sat together on the bench. We’re all four there. And so we had all that time to talk, looking in the moon. And, uh, anyway, it was a lot of fun, really romantic. and after that he asked me out on a date and it went from there.
Dan: And the rest is history.
Roberth & Laticia: yeah.
Dan: awesome. And then 10 years into your marriage, something happened. Tell me about that.
Roberth & Laticia (2): So 10 years in, we had a pretty good [00:05:00] relationship, um, but we just kept getting stuck on sexual intimacy. We just had differences of different desires and it just. Seemed to always be causing conflict. So we went to a therapist and Robert explained all the reasons why he was unhappy with our sexual intimacy.
And, and you know, I was just listening and the therapist was, you know, about to say, well, okay, you need to step it up, Letitia and You know, help your husband out kind of thing. And I just started bawling. I just started crying because the, the message that I, I thought he was giving was that, you know, we never have sex.
And I was thinking. We just had sex two days ago and two days before that, and I can just never be enough. We’re, we’re always, you know, having sex, but it’s never enough. And and looking back, I see that what Robert wanted was, it was, it was empty, right? Because I was doing sort of like duty sex. I was doing it for him, I was doing it to fulfill his needs, and he [00:06:00] wanted me to be there and present and to enjoy it.
And that’s what he meant. but at that point I didn’t realize that. I was like, oh, sex is for men and sure I will fulfill my wifely duty. And it was just, you know, feeling like, oh, I, you know, almost like a chore. but that I would do, you know, gladly because I loved him. But, you know, he felt that, and I don’t know if you wanna say some of that, but Yeah.
Something like that. So. Basically what I thought is, okay, so it felt empty, so it was, it wasn’t like, felt empty, but there was something missing. Um, and because I did not have the knowledge, I didn’t know how to explain it, and obviously. I thought, I’m like, oh, well, if, you know, if something’s missing, then the more we have it, the more we have sex.
Dan: Uhhuh
Roberth & Laticia (2): Then I think it’ll fix it
Dan: right.
Roberth & Laticia (2): not realizing that obviously it’s, there’s more to [00:07:00] it. And so, but I didn’t know, I, I, I didn’t know that, um, you know, all, all, all the knowledge that I have, I’ve learned throughout the years, and now that I can say, well, you know, it’s because of this and this and this. Back then, I’m like, okay, well.
if this doesn’t feel good, it feels good physically, but emotionally it was sort of missing stuff. And so my thought was, okay, well, let’s have more sex.
Dan: Uh,
Roberth & Laticia: The merrier, right?
Dan: right,
Roberth & Laticia (2): And
Dan: Uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): so, and because she was doing an out of duty obviously, that kind of, that felt empty in a way that there was no emotional connection.
There was the physical connection and obviously the emotional connection there was here and there. But anyways, that’s, that’s where I was coming from.
Dan: Gotcha. Gotcha. you walked out of the therapist’s office feeling what
Roberth & Laticia (2): like she could not help us at all and we were just alone and a mess and the just stuck, I guess. [00:08:00] Very stuck. She felt like that. I felt great because she sided with me. She said, yeah, yeah. She said was like, well, Leticia loosen up. Or you know, you gotta, give time. And then, and now it’s like, yeah, somebody understood me, but it, it wasn’t that solution, you know, given more or having more sex. It wasn’t that solution. It wasn’t resolving the root cause of the issue. Yeah. ’cause I walked out of there feeling broken and like I was the problem. And no matter how hard I tried, you know, it was like never enough kind of thing.
Dan: Gotcha. And then what happened?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Uh, so then we started looking elsewhere for books. other therapists, um, we found, oh, Dr. Hughes, I can’t remember his first name, but, um, Yumi, we is a book that he wrote, um, and.
Dan: Hughes, he’s been a guest on my podcast before.
Roberth & Laticia (2): cool, cool. Yeah, so we found his, office and read his book [00:09:00] and, um, it helped a little bit. another book that we found was becoming C Clate by Dr. Mintz.
Dan: Uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And that really helped me because it helped me change this belief system that sex is just for men.
Dan: Ah, good.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And I realized, wow, my anatomy is built. To have sexual pleasure and even almost more pleasure than some, sometimes men do because you, you know, women can orgasm multiple times where men cannot.
And we have a, a clitoris that is a body part that is only meant for sexual pleasure. It doesn’t have any other function. And for me, that was a huge aha moment. Like, oh, maybe I have this wrong and. You know, sex can be for women as well. If I’m built this way, there must be some reason why, you know? Um, so
Dan: very affirming.
Roberth & Laticia (2): yes, yes.
Dan: Great.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I actually found, I, I’m pretty sure that I was the one that read the book first. Mm-hmm. I had a digital [00:10:00] copy and I was reading it and I thought it was great because it had so much information and I read that book through and through, and obviously it was all, it was meant for women, but it actually helped me see a different light and through many, I mean, that was probably like.
Three years ago or, or so, and between, you know, when we started our journey to now we’ve been in and out of trying to figure out things and some worked, some doesn’t, and we sort of kept going into the same, heading buts and, and come into the same. We had a period of like, yeah, this is great, but again, it wasn’t, we were missing a lot of the information that we have now.
Um, but becoming clutter, it was, was a eyeopener for her. I read it and I’m like, there was actually [00:11:00] some, exercises in there. for self pleasuring. And, and I’m like, Hey, yeah, this is great. I’m gonna show her. And I’m like, look, you know, we should try this. And I know was coming from, like, this is a book that it’s meant to help us, so we need to try this.
And, and you’ve said it many times, like, I was coming to it in a wrong.
Dan: energy or whatever uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And so it, I was like, this is gonna help us. you know, you need to do this instead of, presenting the information and giving her that option and freedom for her to choose.
Dan: So when Robert first came to you with the book, how did you take that? Leticia?
Roberth & Laticia (2): I was a little resentful at first just thinking, of course I’m the problem. I need to fix me.
Dan: uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And, um, but I did realize, you know, because of this aha moment that I didn’t quite understand that there was something that I could change about. My belief system [00:12:00] about sexuality and about sex. And, before this time also, we had, our daughter, our one and only daughter, and I wanted to change.
I knew I had these negative, belief systems that just kind of held me back just about body image and about, um, sexuality in general. And I wanted to pass on something more positive to my daughter. And so I knew that okay. Here’s this book. I feel a little resentful about it because yes, you’re telling me the broken one.
I need to change. But I was willing to, you know, once he, he was reading it too, and Robert doesn’t read very often, and so for him to read, I was like, okay, this must be really good because he is reading a book so. Um, so we started reading it together and he would share, um, the parts that he liked and, and then I realized, this is really great information, and so I read it and, yeah, from there we just kept, you know, finding more books and more, you know, your podcast and lots of, you know, different information that [00:13:00] have helped both of us.
So.
Dan: Before we go on to the next phase of your story, I just want, uh, to hear how has understanding about pleasure and working pleasure in your body changed your attitude about sex, changed your. I guess self-confidence changed your image of yourself and maybe ultimately how has it helped you spiritually too?
Roberth & Laticia (2): it is changed the way I think about myself for sure. Um, that I struggled a lot growing up, that women were sort of the object of, men’s
Dan: uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah. And, and it really helped me to. Um, this idea of self-authoring
Dan: Yes.
Roberth & Laticia (2): came like, I can be in charge of my sexuality and men are in charge of their own sexuality and I don’t need to.
worry about what’s going on in some guy’s head. And it helped me ’cause that was a big confidence, downer for me. Like always worrying about, oh, you know, how am [00:14:00] I displaying myself or whatever, how am I acting? Rather than just being like, you know what, I’m gonna show up and this is me and, I can be confident in who I am.
Um, so it really helped me with my self-confidence and just. being able to self-author and not constantly being, scanning for, you know, how do people see me or, perceive me, or, you know, I don’t know if that makes sense.
Dan: Yeah, that’s valuable. What a great insight. so the book helped a little bit. It kind of got you to your next stage.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Mm-hmm.
Dan: assuming sex became a lot more pleasurable and more fun, and not just for Robert, but you were getting something out of it yourself too. Both of you, then what happened?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Uh, well, there was still some frustration with, how different we were.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Roberth & Laticia (2): you know, so we learned from the book Come As You Are by Naski.
Dan: Uhhuh,
Roberth & Laticia (2): about responsive desire and spontaneous [00:15:00] desire. And so after reading that book, I was like, I’m not broken.
Dan: It’s
Roberth & Laticia (2): I, you know, I had learned that, you know, well, pleasure is great and I should be feeling pleasure.
And I was like, why does that always take me so long? You know, like.
Dan: Yeah. Uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): why can’t I just, you know, flip a switch and I’m ready to go, you know, and like Robert and, you know, so I was constantly trying to like, push myself to be more like Robert, the spontaneous desire. And when I read this book, I was like, wow, okay, I understand I’m different and that’s okay.
And we can enjoy, you know, um, the arousal and desire process and that. So that book really helped me. Um. That was another big aha moment, like, oh, responsive desire. That’s me. I don’t have to be spontaneous desire.
Dan: That’s so good. That also changed my marriage completely because like when my wife would walk out of the shower and I’d see [00:16:00] her, my body would respond right away. Like, woo. That was a great cue for me. I, um, aroused ready to go, but. I step outta the shower. My wife sees me. She doesn’t respond the same way.
She’s not jumping my bones right, like so I would think something’s wrong with her, but no, that’s a wrong way to think about it. It’s not a bug. It’s a feature, right? It’s responsive and spontaneous or beautiful Yin yang. They support each other. They compliment each other. If you let it be that in your marriage, otherwise you’re just. So frustrated that you’re different in that way, but it doesn’t mean one’s better than the other.
Roberth & Laticia (2): There, there’s actually a story that she was gonna say, and I’m not gonna jump on it, but, several years ago, we went to Cancoon for a week. And this was all inclusive. the resort was by the beach. And I spent,
Dan: romantic.
Roberth & Laticia (2): was, I mean, I spent [00:17:00] months planning this and, and I, I, I was so excited. And the day came and we were excited and I was thinking, you know, this is gonna be super romantic. This is perfect.
The first day or two was there. It was great. You know, we had fun, and we had a pool outside by ourselves and we enjoyed that. The one of the mornings I came out to her and I was enjoying the moment and just being with her and I started kissing her neck. And she turns and she says like, oh, you wanna have sex?
I was like, what? That guard, because I was just trying to connect with her and show my, like I, I, I, I want her to be physical.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I didn’t want to have sex. It was just more of like, I want to be with you. And, um, I was just in asking in all these, [00:18:00] you know, this whole experience
Dan: Taking in
Roberth & Laticia (2): and she just ruined it by like, oh, you wanna have sex?
And I was like, oh, well, well, no, I, and I was mad because I’m like, why would you think that I’m on? Like, I, I’m just this. Horny person all the time. Like, I have a sex. And I’m like, no, I, I’m just want to be close to you. And, she can tell her side of the story.
Dan: Let me guess. It was, it was, you wanna have sex, not, Hey, you wanna have sex
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah. Definitely wasn’t the second one. It was the first one. Yeah. I was like reading my book and, you know,
Dan: It
Roberth & Laticia (2): um.
Dan: Uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah, it felt a little bit or just like, oh, I need to get ready and I need to jump and go. Right. Um, ’cause I still was thought of sex as more for Robert and the spontaneous desire and I realized, working through that actually we talked about that situation with, some of the coaches you have on your next [00:19:00] level program end.
I realized that I was looking at sex as an issue and, as a problem. ’cause it was constantly bringing up conflict still. Um, you know, we had some really great times, but then there were times that it brought up conflict. and I realized that I was still, I approaching sex as a way to manage Robert’s emotions.
and so, you know, if he was happy, then I was happy. And then I need to manage.
Dan: happy, I need to make him happy so I can be happy,
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah. Yeah. And,
Dan: down so I can calm down. It’s kind of that idea.
Roberth & Laticia (2): exactly, exactly. So
Dan: Perfect.
Roberth & Laticia (2): sort of my, oh, I need to manage him. Oh, he wants this instead of just, um, you know, since then I’ve learned to just. take in the moment and just enjoy the caresses or the physical affection and en just enjoy the pleasure that that brings to me and what my body’s feeling and the emotional connection that I feel with him.
And, and it’s just so much more enjoyable than, oh [00:20:00] wait, I need to stop what I’m doing and I need to, you know, it was just almost, it, it was still that I need to manage Robert
Dan: Uh,
Roberth & Laticia (2): instead of just enjoying it. And so that would be, you know, the next step That really help me, learn to just, just really enjoy her sexual intimacy.
Dan: Rather than making it mean emotional management
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah, exactly.
Dan: That’s good.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think a little bit sooner after this is the pivotal movement from, from my perspective, I, I, I saw her, you making these changes, but it was still something not there. It wasn’t complete. I think it was a little bit about a month after, we were talking and discussing and, it turned to a sort of a heated moment and we were sitting in the kitchen table and we were just a heated moment as not like passionate sexual, no, no conflict.
[00:21:00] And I, I became so frustrated with the whole situation that, she wasn’t getting me, I wasn’t getting her, and we were just clashing. And I became so frustrated that I just like slammed my, hand on the, just because I was so frustrated and. And I said, I’m just so effing frustrated with this whole situation.
We just tried and tried and it just, it wasn’t going anywhere soon after that. Um, obviously that kind of scared me. Um,
Dan: woke you up a bit
Roberth & Laticia (2): yeah,
Dan: ’cause you’re, you’re usually calm, chill guy. And
Roberth & Laticia (2): am.
Dan: to have such a strong emotional response, like that was kind of a wake up call.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah. And she actually, she left the house because she said like, I don’t feel secure in this kind of situation.
Dan: Yeah.
Roberth & Laticia (2): don’t blame her. I would never hit her, I would never touch her physically and, and, and to hurt her. and I just went [00:22:00] for a walk to cool down and, well, yeah. And well, you said that you didn’t feel safe.
Yeah. Um, so it brought a lot of emotions and soon after that she said, I want you to listen to this podcast, and I think it was your podcast
Dan: uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): and it was, you were talking about Under Functioner, over Functioner.
Dan: Yes.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And that to me gave me, it was like a wake up call. It was like. I was like, oh, okay, I understand myself now.
I have the language to understand my feelings. I’m the over-functioner on this relationship
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Roberth & Laticia (2): and in a sense that I’m like trying so hard to work it out, but I’m like pulling and pulling and pulling when, and I’m getting frustrated because I’m not getting any traction, and so I’m more of a functioning in this relationship that.[00:23:00]
Okay. And so that gave me sort of like the path to be like, okay, how can I change that and how do I change that? And so I started listening more of your podcast and I started, talking more and understanding her, and I’m like, okay. And I’m starting to calm myself down in a, in a sense, like, All right. How do I step back and give her the space that she need in order to bring herself in her own pace and way to this relationship?
Dan: Robert, why do you think you over functioned, especially sexually?
What were you afraid of that prompted you to over function?
Roberth & Laticia (2): That’s a great question. I think that a lot of it is more of, I blame her and I think I was like, point a finger like you’re the broken one.
Dan: Yeah.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think if I’m feeling this way. And why can sex be so good? Why don’t want it more? [00:24:00] Um, and there was a lot of things that I had to work through.
and it was easy to blame somebody than look inside of me and say, and I think that’s where I’m, I was over-functioning. It was that, You know, obviously this is good, so let’s, let’s get you going. So I, I try to, that’s how I manage my emotions is through her and bringing and pushing her and, and dragging her along.
Dan: Gotcha. So in a way, you’re both kind of doing the same thing, managing each other, managing your own emotions
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: to control each other through things.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: Yeah. That’s interesting. People, myself included to a degree, when I have a history of sexual overfunctioning, it’s ’cause I’m afraid if I don’t do it, won’t. So someone’s gotta do it then I do it, and then I resent it because like, how come you can’t pick up your share? But really it [00:25:00] comes down to an insecurity that I have. It’s like if you don’t do it, who’s going to? that’s kind of the narrative in, in the head, but it, it sets up a marriage where it’s really not about equals as much. ’cause now you’re trying to manage each other and that’s not a sexy, meaning,
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah,
Dan: not a very inviting meaning.
Roberth & Laticia (2): no. Yeah. And obviously we’re still working on it and, you know, we still, it still brings up conflict, but I feel like we’re in a place now where it’s, I don’t see sex sexual intimacy as an issue anymore. It’s like, it’s this thing that helps us to grow together and it helps us to connect together and bring us together and, and make us better people, um, because the things we’re learning, just in our sexual intimacy then also branches out to the way that we interact.
Um, with our family and, and in life in general.
Dan: Yeah, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. sex is fun and exciting in and of itself, but it has this ripple effect. It blesses so much [00:26:00] else once you. of get that working really well in your marriage like you two have as I love that. I agree a hundred percent.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think one of the biggest things that also was that I did not understand. I’m going back a little bit. it, It was
that she wanted that emotional, connection. I am in nature. I’m pretty quiet.
Dan: Uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): and especially it, it’s interesting with her I was really quiet and I withheld a lot.
when I’m with anybody else, it’s a different story. Like I can, you know, I can talk and obviously I’m pretty easy going. but when, when it came down to like really feeling like sharing my feelings,
Dan: Uhhuh
Roberth & Laticia (2): I did not, I was pretty quiet and she would, try to fish that out of me and like, get it out of, And I did not understand that, that, that she needed to be emotionally connected before she can [00:27:00] be. And that comes with being, uh, responsive. It’s, and knowing women, most women, they want that emotional connection before the physical or they can be okay to be, have that physical connection. And I did not understand that.
And that is something that I. That I still struggle, but I’m working and being more emotional connected to her. not because I want sex. It’s because, not only it has helped me to be able to bring out my emotions but it also have learned to like sit in my emotions and see how does that affect me?
How am I going to deal with that emotion and has helped me to. Not only that, but then I can in turn say, Hey, I’m feeling this not too long ago. Actually, yesterday, I was listening to, podcasts and it brought a lot of emotions and I’m like, I, it took me a while to have the strength. ’cause it, it is still [00:28:00] hard.
Dan: Right.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I, I told her, I like, Hey, I listened to this podcast and I had a lot of. Emotions come up in this and so can I, can I share with you this? And so yeah, that still, it’s a process, but um, definitely has helped me to be able to have that emotion connection with her.
Dan: That’s great. Very good. Robert, why was it hard for you to. could kind of be emotionally close to her in the past, well, it may have been easier, like in a setting around peers and friends.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Because there’s a difference. I mean, when I’m talking to somebody, I don’t have to talk to them about my emotions. It was shallow conversation.
Dan: It was more surface level,
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: marriage, you can’t hide.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Because,
as a kid I was sexually abused. Um, and [00:29:00] that has weighed me down and I push my emotions a lot and I withheld my emotions because there was a lot of. Shame and guilt and everything that comes with that And, and because I was pushing that, I did not open up to Leticia ’cause she would’ve wanted, she want to know about me butt within me.
I’m like, I’m this nasty person. I think a lot of thinking about a lot of sex because of, um, spontaneous, I thought that thinking about sex was the wrong thing.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Roberth & Laticia (2): of shame that came because I thought of wanting to be intimate with my wife, and when I say having sex, it wasn’t with like with other persons or anything like that.
It was more of like wanting to be sexually to be intimate with my wife. [00:30:00] Thought of those interactions that we’ve had in the past, but I didn’t think that that was healthy for me. The way that I’ve looked at it, it was unhealthy and that I was this, you know, sexual deviant and this, you know, predator that always wanted sex because I did not understand my spontaneous desire.
And because of that. Misunderstanding. I thought that all of these things that came with it was, was shameful. And so I did not open up to her ’cause of those reasons. And obviously ’cause I did not know, I don’t understand my way to let them out. Um, and. For the longest time I thought that this episode, it already happened.
I shouldn’t bring it up. It’s done and I You move on, right?
Dan: Right.
Roberth & Laticia (2): in a certain, yeah, you move on, but there’s [00:31:00] consequences. I’m just thinking that, that you move on and the consequences that I just guard of my feelings very like tight. And not even Leticia. There was a lot of things that I, that I’ve been able to just come out and, and it feels good because I’m not only, I’m helping myself, but I’m becoming intimate with my wife and in a more different levels.
Dan: Right. Yeah. You’re letting her see into you more.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: me. See intimacy.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: heart what, what you just brought up makes sense. ’cause as a child this horrible thing happened and your way of coping with it is adaptive. I push it down, I, because that makes sense in a moment, but it’s become maladaptive now in an intimate relationship with your wife. That same style of dealing with unpleasantness, unpleasant emotions [00:32:00] served you as a child to help you survive is now working against you in this intimate relationship. So it’s, your process of growing and learning and healing too. kind of become more emotionally mature, so to speak
Roberth & Laticia (2): sure.
Dan: now with your wife.
That’s, that’s really good.
Roberth & Laticia (2): For sure.
Dan: Thank you for sharing that.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: what else
I.
Roberth & Laticia (2): uh, we were sort of enmeshed and we had this kind of polite relationship, right? And, um, which, you know, there’s nothing bad with that, but it just, it wasn’t as vulnerable. and as intimate as we, as we, we knew that it could be or that we felt like, you know, there’s something missing like Robert had said.
And so.
Dan: listeners that don’t know what enmeshed means, can you maybe illustrate maybe in an example what that looks like?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yes. So we were driving home, in the car from a vacation and, um, rock. From the retreat. From the retreat Actually, yes, from the retreat. Actually
Dan: Oh, okay.
Roberth & Laticia (2): from the retreat [00:33:00] it was.
So Robert very rarely eats breakfast. he just doesn’t do breakfast. And so knowing that I had packed, you know, fruit and some things that I was gonna snack on in the car for breakfast, and after I had finished, and I guess he was hungry, he’s like, do you wanna have breakfast? Do you wanna eat out? I was like, no, I already had my stuff here.
You know, I, I already packed this and. All of a sudden just this emotional charge changed in the car. Like he was kind of upset and resentful and it got really quiet. And I was like, Hmm, okay. And in the past I would’ve been like, try to fix that emotion or try, oh wait, you know, did you wanna go out to breakfast?
You know, we can go. And I, and I did. I was like, did you wanna go out to breakfast? Like we can. I already packed mine and you know, and he was just kind of quiet and he was working through his emotions and. Later on we have this conversation. So that’s kind of enmeshment when you, You, first of all. So [00:34:00] he, he was asking me if I wanna go to breakfast rather than saying, rather than owning his own desire and being like, Hey, I’d like to go out for breakfast. You know, what do you think about that? Or would you like to, you know, making it an I statement rather than I need you. To tell you what I want so that we can do it, you know? Um, so, and you know, we had this conversation afterwards like, oh, this is enmeshment. This is where, this is where we need to fix, um, or change, you know, so just that’s an example of enmeshment, like you asking instead of saying, Hey, I’d like to go to breakfast instead saying, would you like to go to breakfast?
And then getting resentful and feeling bad because. They didn’t give you the right answer or they didn’t read your mind or whatever. And then on the other side, like, oh, well I need to kind of decode his question. And I, you know, sort of like walking on eggshells. Like, I, I need to, to
Dan: to fix him.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yes. Fix him now.[00:35:00]
Dan: is restored. Yeah.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Yeah. So that’s in measurement, that’s an example in me.
Dan: great example.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And so, you know, that happens with, Sexual intimacy as well. Oh, do you wanna have sex or you wanna be intimate tonight? Or do you wanna instead like, Hey, I would love to be intimate with you tonight, and what would that look like for you? these are some things that I would like to do, you know, just owning it instead of, you know, being like, you know, I hope they can read my mind.
I hope they can read my cues or whatever, you know, or on the other side, like, Trying to read the cues instead of being like, oh, hey, it seems like, you know, something’s bothering you, or it seems like you’d like to be intimate. You know, just bringing it out in the open and communicating openly and vulnerably.
so that’s, another thing that’s really been helpful, especially after the retreat, learning that,
Dan: Yeah, you’re empowered. Oh, I, this is what’s going on.
Roberth & Laticia (2): yeah. Yeah.
Dan: good, good. Anything else?
Roberth & Laticia (2): I know that’s has helped me a lot [00:36:00] to, Oh, for the longest time. She would, she was just, if you want, if you want to be intimate, just tell me, and for me, so for me it was more like hugging her and caressing her and touching her breast and, you know, doing all these things like trying to like, hey. I want to be intimate with you, but not really saying it aloud.
And, and for her, because she’s the responsive, and I was like, uh, she, she was trying to figure out like, where is this going? Like, do you want to be, have sex or not? And so for the longest time, she would’ve was like, just tell me. And for me, it just didn’t, I don’t know. I just, I’m like, it, it loses the, uh,
Dan: Appeal.
Roberth & Laticia (2): enrollment.
Romantic side of things, but like I, that, that’s where I was coming from. And knowing and being more expressive [00:37:00] and owning what I want and, owning what I desire has helped us to be like we use the between us. Um. app. And so there are times where I’m like, Hey, tonight, how about we do this and this and this?
or I, I, I’m expressing myself more like, Hey, I would love to do this, or I want to do this. And obviously give her the space to be like, how about what, what do you think? So she has that, space to think, oh. Okay, there, there is an option here that I can say, yeah, this, you know, sounds awesome, or No, but how about we do something else?
And knowing that also that if she says no, but I would love to do something and it looks completely different of what I picture. It’s okay. It is fine. It is not, she’s not [00:38:00] saying, no, I don’t want to be intimate with you, and No, I don’t want you. No, she’s not saying that. She’s saying this. I would love to be intimate with you, but
Dan: Alright.
Roberth & Laticia (2): it looks a little bit different.
And give her that voice. That is something that has, is a game changer for, at least for me, just knowing and Making that chatter in my head that it’s, it’s okay. Um,
Dan: good.
Roberth & Laticia (2): because, you know, for the longest and she’s like, no, I don’t want to. And it meant like, for me, that felt like, oh, she doesn’t want to be intimate with
Dan: a rejection
Roberth & Laticia (2): me.
Dan: right. Abandonment. Oh,
Roberth & Laticia (2): She directed me. Well, I’m your husband and I want to be. And I was like, she’s rejecting me. And so it, it came because of that reaction that rejection came with a lot of. Self negative talk, which it wasn’t true.
Dan: That is so good. Great.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think what you just said too, kind of goes back to that example we gave about when [00:39:00] we were in Cancun and he’s caressing my neck and I was reading and I was like, oh, okay, I need, you know, to read these signs and this is what it means. And so as we’ve been able to be more vulnerable and communicate more vulnerably and you know, show up.
for ourselves, you know, saying This is what I want. we’ve been able to just kind of go with the flow more. Like, um, we’re so we’re not reading each other and we’re not, you know, it’s not that enmeshed feeling where it’s like, oh, I need to take care of him, or I need to read his cues or whatever.
It’s just, okay, well, oh yeah, this feels great to me and we’ll see where it goes. You know, it doesn’t have this hidden meaning or this agenda.
Dan: Hmm, that’s so good. A lot of times in marriage what we, we think we want intimacy, but we really want is comfort.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Hmm,
Dan: Right?
Roberth & Laticia (2): that’s true.
Dan: the, it would be so much more comfortable if I didn’t have to stick my neck out there and ask if my spouse wants sex with me. If I could just like. could just read my mind.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I, yeah.
Dan: so much more [00:40:00] comfortable for me because it actually doesn’t feel good to take a risk to say, Hey, are you open to X, Y, or Z?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. It’s, you know, you open up yourself for it. It, it’s hard because on this spontaneous side, it’s like you’re asking, and you have that thought, like you’re always asking, right? You’re always sort of like the person.
Dan: too much? Yeah. Uhhuh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah. And so when you ask. There’s that risk of saying no, and, and so is a risky question.
Dan: Mm-hmm. Good. Speaking of risky questions, are there some sorts of questions in your marriage that you’ve found work well for you? Two. Let me give you an example of what I mean. Sometimes, what I’ve found is instead of asking my wife, for example, can we please have sex tonight? Or whatever it is, instead it’s like, what sounds pleasurable for you tonight? [00:41:00] That question works in our marriage. sometimes because it’s from, I’m not in the mood to needing to have sex with you is a big leap Sometimes, especially if it’s not on your mind at all. You’re doing other things, it’s, it’s a big jump, but the, the question of what’s pleasurable for you. could mean we jump up to sex, but it could also mean we just take one, you know, a little step forward instead of a on off switch. It’s like a dimmer switch, I guess. And it’s inviting space for all this in Betweenness, but also it’s a collaborative question because I’m asking, Hey, can we work together to create something more than nothing together tonight? So that’s like an example. I mean, are there questions that work in your marriage that you’ve discovered that you want our listeners to hear?
Roberth & Laticia (2): I can’t think of any specific question except for, Using that I statement, like, I would love to do this. What do you think? How do you feel about that? [00:42:00] Um, but starting out with the, you know, owning what you would like and being honest about it, and then just how do you feel about that? What would you like to do or, can you think of any?
Yeah. we’ve tried that approach and I, we, I got it from you. Is that what, what sounds pleasurable for you tonight? honestly, I think it, we, we tried a couple times. I just don’t know how I ended up, so, um, but yeah, I,
Dan: memorable.
Roberth & Laticia (2): um, yeah. Yeah, just, I think it’s more asking those, questions and getting to know more, listening. That’s another thing that we’ve, that I’ve learned is. The I statements and how I feel, um, instead of you, because that’s pointing the finger to that person instead of like, this is how I feel. and the other thing that we’ve learned that recently is letting that person talk, [00:43:00] give the whole, even if it’s like five, 10 minutes, then you have the whole information instead of trying to jump in.
halfway through and not knowing the whole information has helped us to be able to work through, some difficult conversations that we’ve had. Um, that it’s definitely has been something that we’ve both learned.
Dan: That’s good. Seek first to understand and then be understood.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very true. Friends in our coy.
Dan: That’s right. So what is your advice to a couple, if they’re kind of at a stage, let’s say you’re talking to yourselves, if you were three years ago or five years ago, what advice would you give them as we conclude this conversation?
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think focusing on the emotional connection, if you create a lot of opportunities to connect. Emotionally, whether that’s just, you know, grabbing each other’s butt while you’re cooking in the [00:44:00] kitchen together or, um, just coming up behind him. And I like to do this when Robert, Robert works from home.
And so sometimes I’ll come up and kiss his neck or something, or give him a hug from behind while he’s on a meeting and, you know, just, showing that I love him or that, um, uh, just creating those moments throughout the day where you let each other know that, that you’re thinking about ’em sending a, a kind text or hey, I was, you know, thinking about last night and,
Dan: Uh, uh.
Roberth & Laticia (2): you know, stuff like that where, where you’re, you’re connecting emotionally and creating that intimacy throughout the day so that it’s not, and making time for that.
so you’re not just go, go, go, go all day, but that you’re making time for your relationship and your marriage and you’re showing that to your partner. Um. Sharing that with them and the sex will come.
Dan: that’s great. Great. Great.
Roberth & Laticia (2): I think for me in explaining or, talking to myself three years ago [00:45:00] is two things. Calm the heck down, and be true to yourself. Owning your feelings and sharing those feelings has been definitely something that has helped me and helped us because she understands, she can see, okay, well, we might have two different views and give, given yourself the space to be understand and to be understood and.
That is something that to understand and to be understood, that is something that has helped me a lot. It’s, it just, self authoring, I guess it’s that, this is how I feel and be okay and. For the spontaneous desire person, the things that you’ve gone through and thought, you’re, you’re not broken, you’re okay.
Those are things that happens as a spontaneous desire. We, we think about intimacy and sex pretty often, and it’s, it’s fine. [00:46:00] That’s it. It, it’s a beautiful thing. Just own it and share that with You’re a significant person and, and hopefully that other person will see us as in a advantage that there’s a person that wants to be intimate with, with that other person.
So that is a couple of things that I’ve, I definitely would tell myself in the past.
Dan: Great. Thank you. All right. Anything else?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Uh, I just wanna piggyback on that. Um, I see Robert’s spontaneous desire more as a, a blessing, um,
Dan: a gift? Yes.
Roberth & Laticia (2): a gift to our relationship and our marriage, to create more. Intimacy, rather than in the past I saw it as a little bit of an annoyance, or I felt resentful towards it. But I see that truly as a gift. and I see that, you know, he’s expressed to me that, you know, being responsive desire where I, you know, I need, I need some time to, to warm up and create that arousal and desire, is also a gift that, [00:47:00] you know, we can en enjoy.
Enjoy that moment. And, and it’s not like a, oh, she’s taking so long. It’s, it’s a let’s enjoy this, um, and create this with more time. And so just, just appreciating each other’s different styles, and seeing it as a gift rather than an annoyance or, or whatever.
Dan: That is so wise.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Can I add a really quick, do with a spontaneous audience?
Given that space for the responsive person to come in on their own has been an amazing thing because Leticia, she came from a background where she didn’t think that she was a sexual person. And given her that space has been amazing. I mean, she’s done, so great and there are. Multiple times.
I’m like, see, you got it in you. And, and [00:48:00] it’s been amazing to see the, her growth and becoming, this sexual person and being okay with it. she’s definitely has blown my mind in so many ways,
Dan: I’m so good.
Roberth & Laticia (2): but it wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t let her. And that’s something that I. That I wasn’t in the past.
Giving it space, right. Giving the space to become that person instead of controlling. Yep.
Dan: did the Get your Marriage on program, the Next Level program help you realize a lot of these things?
Roberth & Laticia (2): Definitely. Yes, for sure. Yeah, it was, it’s been so helpful and it still is. So we came out of the retreat, we were so excited. We were like, we’re coming again next year. It was so much fun. And as you guys said at the beginning of the day, there was, I don’t, I don’t know, 19 couples, All strangers at, at the end of Saturday night, Sunday morning, we were [00:49:00] all just felt so closed and, new friendships were, were made and, and it was pretty awesome to see so many people just being vulnerable with each other. And, it was an amazing experience.
Dan: It’s inspiring.
Roberth & Laticia (2): Yeah.
Dan: Absolutely.
Roberth & Laticia (2): And it just, it’s like, I’m not alone.
We’re not alone in our struggles. Like everybody’s kind of going through a similar thing, you know? So
Dan: absolutely true.
Roberth & Laticia (2): we’re all in the same, path and different steps, but we’re all on the same path walking along. And, that is the, amazing thing is we’re not alone in this journey.
Dan: I sure appreciate that. Thank you. This has been an amazing discussion. Thank you very much.
Roberth & Laticia (2): You’re welcome. Yeah, you’re welcome.
Outro
Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode. Now, most couples who want to take sex and intimacy to their next level usually don’t need more information. What they really need is a framework. They need coaching, they need help with [00:50:00] implementation. They need help with the practical, where the rubber meets the road.
And that’s what I’m offering for you. If you go to get your marriage on.com and click on program. We’ve, redone our program for 2026, and you can get in for less than a hundred dollars a month. You get coaching from us up to eight times a month. You get access to our really in depth course, and if you’re unsure about it all, you can try the first 30 days for free, but it’s for a limited time, so you’ll find those details and this is how you can learn more about how to transform.
Intimacy in your marriage. Now, Robert and Leticia, they’ve been to our coaching program. They also attended our in-person retreat, and these are all services that we offer to really help you grow your marriages and we work with you, uh, you know. We’re in it with you. We get, we get close in and really help you understand the next steps you need.
And this is what we do. This is our joy, this is my pride. This is what we really like to help couples. It’s our way of solving the [00:51:00] poverty crisis, the bedroom poverty crisis. that afflicts, so many bedrooms and. It’s a silent epidemic that we want to reverse and solve. We wanna help you with that too in your marriage.
We also have many free resources like this podcast. We have the Intimately US app, and just between US app and other contests and challenges that we do throughout the year. I hope you find this information helpful. Please share it with your married friends. They will. Thank you for life and now go get your marriage on.
