What if the biggest blocker to a thriving sex life isn’t desire, kids, or schedules—but your mindset? In this episode, master coach Jody Moore joins me to show how small shifts in thinking can create big changes in intimacy.
We cover:
- Why “keeping your spouse happy” quietly destroys connection
- The surprising reason lower-desire partners stay stuck
- Common mindsets that sabotage sexual arousal
- Clean pain vs. dirty pain in marriage
- And don’t miss Jody’s black-belt sex tip!
Sextember is on!
Make September your 30-day intimacy reset inside the Intimately Us app. Plus:
- Virtual Getaway – The Anatomy of Arousal (Sept 26–27): a spicy, nourishing, live, at-home retreat for couples
- Coming next week: Sex Seminar with 25 experts—join our email list for details
Ready to think differently and feel closer? Hit play—and let’s get your marriage on.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
What if I told you that the biggest obstacle to a thriving intimate marriage isn’t what you think it is? It’s not differing desire levels. It’s not the kids. It’s not stress or busy schedules or even past baggage. We’re gonna [00:01:00] uncover all this today.
It’s gonna be fantastic because our guest is none other then Jody Moore, she is a master level certified life coach that’s helped hundreds of thousands of people become more successful in their lives and in their relationships. And we’re gonna talk about how mindset shifts affect sex and intimacy. These are the, some of the topics that we’ll talk about today.
We’ll talk about why trying to keep your spouse happy is actually destroying your connection. We’ll talk about the surprising reason, low desire spouses stay stuck, and the simple mindset shift that can change everything. We’ll talk about how growing up when sex was a shouldn’t, and now that you’re married all of.
Sudden it’s a should. How that creates problems in marriage and a simple mindset shift that will fix everything, what you can do about it. We’ll talk about the difference between clean pain and dirty pain in relationships. Why choosing the right one transforms everything in relationship. And you’ll wanna listen to the end and stay for Jodi’s black belt sex tip that [00:02:00] goes way beyond what’s in the bedroom .
Today is September 5th. We’re five days into our month long September celebration. If you’re new to Sex Timber, listen to our episode that we released last week where we go in depth about the origin story behind Sext. I want you and your spouse to make this month one of the most special, intimate months that you’ve ever had.
So download the Intimately US app if you don’t have it already. All of the details of this challenge, this 30 day challenge is there for you, and I hope you make this month a fantastic month for you and your spouse. Draw closer together and just feel more alive in your relationship. Now to help you with this, we have a few special things going on.
First is at the end of the month, the last Friday, Saturday of this month, September 26th and 27. You and her spouse are invited to join Emily and I and a few special guests to a virtual getaway. It’s like a retreat that you do either from home or from a [00:03:00] hotel where you take two days with us. We’ll walk you through some, fun and arousing.
Exercises that are designed to really boost sex and intimacy in your relationship because sex and intimacy is a really important part of marriage and all of us, regardless if you’ve been, married for many years or you’re just a newlywed, I promise this event is gonna really infuse a lot of life and joy into your marriage.
The other fun thing that we have coming on is, in the middle of the month, we are participating in a sex seminar that we’ve partnered with 25 other sex experts. myself is one of them, and we have put on a special sex seminar. So if you’re not subscribed to our mail list, make sure you do to get the announcements for that and how you can.
participate and watch this special sex seminar that we have coming up. That’s our Sexy September plan for you. Now, let’s dive into this episode with Jody Moore.
Dan: [00:04:00] Jody, what an honor to have you on the Get Your Marriage on Podcast today. How are you?
Jody: I’m really good. Thanks for having me, Dan. I’m honored to be here.
Dan: Great. I’ve followed you for years. You’re an inspiration to me with the way you coach and the way you have developed your business and your programs, and I’m sure in your journey of coaching, you’ve come across couples that needed help in their intimate relationship. Can you tell me of a time where you’ve helped a couple with that?
Jody: Yes. when I was relatively new to coaching, and I was coaching private, you know, one-on-one clients, I did have a couple that signed up to coach with me on their marriage, and it ended up being, you know, 90% of what we were coaching on and they wanted help with was their sex life and their intimacy situation.
And I remember feeling. Totally inadequate to coach on that
Dan: Uh, uh.
Jody: um, as, as not neither a, an expert in that realm or a very experienced, you know, like very conservative Mormon woman.[00:05:00]
Dan: Yes. Uhhuh.
Jody: Um, but what was so amazing about it was the tools that I have been trained in and that I’ve been using for 11 years now,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: get into, Understanding what’s happening in your mind,
Dan: You’re right.
Jody: your head straight, choosing more intentionally how you wanna think about things becoming empowered, if you will. And all I did was stick to those tools and this couple made amazing progress. So. As is commonly the case. The husband was a higher desire, the wife was lower desire,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: not only desire, but the husband wanted things to be a little bit spicier and more playful and more exciting like it was when they were first married.
And she was kind of just like Down for more traditional interactions in their sex life. And, and anyway, I coached them separately. I remember we did, I would coach the wife and then the husband, they weren’t together, I remember, the wife is the one who signed them up. She was
Dan: Right.
Jody: I know this Jody Moore [00:06:00] lady.
We should go work with her. And he,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: kind of like, all right, he is open to it. But he had no idea. He wasn’t like, she was more sold on this stuff than him.
Dan: Right.
Jody: And after a while, I remember this one. Session because I was trying to coach him around just making peace with the way it was in their marriage
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: and that needing it to be different in order to feel connected to his wife or feel like he wasn’t missing out on something, was not serving either of them.
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: a part of him felt like, but if I let go of that of needing that, if you will. It’s never gonna change. And I kept talking to him about like, it’s not changing now.
Dan: All right.
Jody: And all of a sudden he had this light bulb moment. I remember when he went, oh my gosh, you’re right. Like, isn’t helping. Right? It’s not changing my wife, it’s not getting her to be more into it the way I want her to be. it’s just punishing me. And he, he sort of let go of needing it Now, he didn’t let go of wanting it. [00:07:00] is how I coached him. I’m like, you could still want that,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: not need it in order to feel how you’re trying to feel, to feel connected, to feel appreciated, to think that your marriage is good and all of that.
And when he did, of course, and I knew this would happen, he came back a couple weeks later and was like, I. You’re never gonna guess what happened. My wife suddenly is up for a little bit more. We used to use like an ice cream analogy, you
Dan: Uh,
Jody: to keep it pg for us. He was like, suddenly she’s up for, a more, you know, exciting ice cream sundae than we used to.
And I was like, of course. Because that’s what happens.
Dan: yes.
Jody: it and it stopped feeling like an obligation to her, it suddenly became more appealing. So anyway, there’s a lot to unpack there, but really did show me like the tools that I have been trained in and use can help with any situation, and they’re really powerful when people are open to them.
Dan: I agree and amen to those tools. I use them on myself. I use ’em with the clients that I coach. These are really good tools to [00:08:00] bring awareness to the way we think,
Jody: yeah,
Dan: because you can’t fix what you can’t see.
Jody: that’s
Dan: And that’s what this does. It shines a light on what’s really going on.
Jody: Love it. I.
Dan: So as a coach, and coaching thousands, tens of thousands of people in your program, what are common patterns you see that couples or individuals run into when it comes to sexual intimacy in their relationships?
Jody: Yeah. Well, okay. The first thing that comes, it affects their marriage in always, but it’s sort of a, I would say a root
Dan: A deeper yes. Uhhuh
Jody: of the, the intimacy issues is what I call displaced emotional ownership. So in other words, it’s so tempting for me as a wife to think that. of my primary responsibilities is to keep my husband happy and that
Dan: yes.
Jody: life has been, I mean, and, and for my husband probably to think the same about me, right?
We even have these things like happy wife, happy life,
Dan: Right.
Jody: desperately [00:09:00] want the other person to approve of us, usually to be positive, to be happy, so that it doesn’t cause. What we think are problems for us, right?
Dan: Right.
Jody: So we take ownership for our spouse’s emotions. At
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: time, we delegate the ownership over our emotions to our spouse.
Dan: And how do we do that?
Jody: so if, let’s say my husband is unhappy, maybe
Dan: Uhhuh,
Jody: home from work grumpy and complaining.
Dan: right?
Jody: coach a lot of women who say, my husband is so negative and so grumpy. He hates his job. He comes home and complains about it every day,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: point out to them, as someone pointed out to me at one time, you’re very negative about your negative husband.
Dan: Uh huh.
Jody: And I think I’m just stating the facts, like
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: he’s negative, he complains a lot, but that is me being grumpy and negative and complaining about my spouse.
Dan: In response, right? Uhhuh.
Jody: And so even if it’s true that he’s unhappy, and even if everyone would agree that he’s [00:10:00] complaining, unhappiness, my negativity is coming from me, thinking that he shouldn’t be that way.
Dan: Right.
Jody: why we get into this problem. That’s why we try to control or manipulate, or people please or placate or whatever our spouse is, so that we can feel better. Sometimes it works,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: many times it doesn’t. And then we’re left resentful. And so it always begins with recognizing, it’s not to say, Dan, that we don’t care about how our spouse feels.
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it’s not mine to own how my spouse feels and
Dan: Yes.
Jody: my spouse wants, or needs or is just going to feel negative, is gonna be unhappy and, and is even gonna think that I’m the cause of it. Right,
Dan: Right.
Jody: I can’t take that on as mine to own and control, or I have to contort myself to try to police my spouse, which ultimately leads to resentment and is not real in the end. Again, it doesn’t mean I don’t care, but I have to take ownership of how [00:11:00] do I want to feel? How am I choosing to feel? How am I going to, experience relationship in my life? Not delegate it to my spouse.
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: just a mix up that happens there.
Dan: That’s brilliant. We talk a lot about boundaries, healthy boundaries and relationships, and this is like an example of one that’s probably people don’t think of, but it’s that I have a boundary of where my emotions are, but we let it be so permeable with the way our spouse is behaving. We don’t see it that way.
Jody: Yeah, and I mean, there are what they call mirroring neurons, right? And
Dan: yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh.
Jody: status is to mirror the people around me if I like. You know, you and I got on this call today to do this interview and, and you’re very kind and polite, and then I’m kind and polite in return and we’re just, we’re just kind of mirroring
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: If, you got on and you were really mad about something and accusing me of being late or something, I might get defensive
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: it’s natural to mirror each other. It’s actually like a survival [00:12:00] mechanism
Dan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uhhuh.
Jody: And so that happens, but it’s all it takes is a little bit of awareness. That’s
Dan: Uh.
Jody: You just have to become aware, like, oh, this person is feeling this way, and I can feel that way. Uh, on default I will feel something similar, probably in response, but I don’t have to. I have a lot of options because my emotions are created by my own. Thinking my own stories, my own beliefs. What what’s happening in my mind is creating how I’m feeling in my body. It’s not what’s happening in my husband’s mind or body that’s creating how I’m feeling. So when you recognize, oh, I have options here, I don’t have to get him to be happier, less negative order for me to feel better.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: Then you become empowered. And I know, like, we’ll talk about how this connects to intimacy in just a minute, but I
Dan: Yes.
Jody: helpful to look at, I remember my husband for a long time was just really stressed and worried about his job.
Dan: Uhhuh
Jody: would come home every day stressed at [00:13:00] saying things to me like, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna get fired. Um, like he was legitimately worried. Right.
Dan: Uhhuh,
Jody: I became so worried. About his job, but also about him being so worried.
Dan: right.
Jody: it feels like like a loving, kind thing to do as a spouse, to be
Dan: Uh,
Jody: worried spouse.
But then all you have is two worried people.
Dan: yes.
Jody: And
Dan: He
Jody: what I had to do is realize, okay, he, for whatever reason. Needs to be worried right now it seems like, or wants to be worried or he, he just is worried, okay, what if I stop trying to talk him out of it all the time?
Dan: uhhuh,
Jody: that’s not working. You pull on someone’s story sometimes, like, honey, don’t worry.
You’re doing a great job. It’s gonna be
Dan: right? Right.
Jody: back, no, you don’t understand. This is happening and that’s happening. And my boss said this and he digs in. Sometimes they, they’ll dig in deeper to their story when we try
Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jody: So I was like, okay, I’m not gonna talk him outta being worried, but what if I wasn’t worried about him being worried?
Dan: Just let him be worried.
Jody: [00:14:00] Yeah,
Dan: Uh.
Jody: comes from a simple thought, like it’s okay that he’s worried
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: it’s not a problem that I need to solve. I can be compassionate and empathetic and I’m so sorry that you’re worried, honey.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: you need to be worried, you totally can. And I’m not worried, but you can be.
Dan: Yeah. Yeah.
Jody: Then you have one person who’s worried and one person who’s calm, and if they choose calm, you’ve given them some proof that it’s okay, but, and they may not.
But you stop trying to manipulate your spouse,
Dan: Yes.
Jody: freeing in
Dan: Uh, my cousin has a T-shirt that says, I need you to calm down so that I can calm down. And we think it’s so funny.
Jody: right,
Dan: what’s going on there.
Jody: way around, right? And people
Dan: Yes.
Jody: hard to do that. I’m like, no, it’s much harder to try to control your spouse
Dan: Uh, yeah, and it’s, and it can never actually control ’em. It’s all like pseudo control, but
Jody: yeah.
Dan: yeah. Yeah. I love this because I think even in your opening story and this one, we’re hinting at this underlying theme of freedom [00:15:00] and empowerment. When we’re don’t feel so captive by our spouse’s choices all the time, we take back our own control of ourselves.
And let them be them and let us be us. Of course, with great compassion and kindness too mixed in there. But that’s really how we create more self-reliance, more emotional self-reliance, I guess, that you can say.
Jody: Yeah.
Dan: we have a self that we can bring to the marriage. I like that.
Jody: Yeah, definitely. I always say I. Just want my husband Jake, to be the Jakes Jake. can be. And my job is to be the Jodys Jody. I can be not to like, if Jake could just be like a Jodys Jake,
Dan: Uh huh.
Jody: brain thinks that would be better. Why
Dan: Uhhuh,
Jody: more like me?
Dan: right?
Jody: I, when I finally let that go and realize, no, no, no, that’s not the goal.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: it really is freeing. So anyway.
Dan: That’s great. Okay. What’s the second thing that you see a lot in your coaching?
Jody: thing, and, and now we’ll get in a [00:16:00] little bit more to intimacy, but this comes into play, is the majority of my clients are women, although we’re getting more and more men. the majority of the time the woman is the lower desire partner.
Not
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: but most often. That’s what I coach on. So you have a low desire and a high desire partner. Right.
Dan: Right,
Jody: so I’m usually coaching the low desire partner, lower desire. and so often she’s saying things like, I just don’t have those feelings. I don’t think I need sex even at all.
Dan: right.
Jody: most of the time they’re not telling me they think it’s a bad thing.
They’re just like, I would be fine without it.
Dan: Right,
Jody: And at the same time, my spouse feels rejected or resentful that we’re not more intimate or more frequency or whatever is the situation. so then this comes back to again, feeling bad that your spouse is feeling bad or not wanting to deal with a spouse who gets mad and gives you the silent treatment for a few days, or pouts or whatever.
Dan: right.[00:17:00]
Jody: it’s even worrying about, what he might, you know, go do to meet that need instead. so it’s this, this odd situation that I feel like happens with most couples where you have a higher desire and you would know better than me. You coach on this a lot more than me. But there, it’s, it’s unusual.
I think that you have two equally desired
Dan: Correct. Yes, correct.
Jody: and so people think this is a problem. The lower desired partner takes it as. Something that they have to, um, you know, placate, the higher desire takes it as rejection,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: cycle just spins. So of the things that I do offer to people in this situation is first of, I’ll ask them this, okay, so you don’t want right now, let’s just say,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: do you want to want it? And sometimes the answer is no. But usually the answer is yes, because they wouldn’t be bringing this to me.
Dan: Right.
Jody: If it was, no, that’s where I [00:18:00] usually begin is what if you just decide that it’s enough that you want to want it? And if you don’t want to want it, we kind of explore why, like this is a part of being a human being and it’s actually a really cool part.
Right? And there’s a, a purpose for it, and it could be very expansive. And, what are we really afraid of? If we’re afraid to explore our own sexuality and things like that so we can do a little bit of. to get someone to want to want it,
Dan: Uh,
Jody: but in the end, wanting to want it is enough,
Dan: yes. Mm-hmm.
Jody: to start to shift you in the right direction. And then the other thing I like to explore with someone in this situation is what does create arousal anyway?
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: being not a, not a sex expert myself, but I ha I do listen to. A lot on this topic, and I’ve studied a little bit, but the, the kind of the area I like to play in is arousal, at least in part, is created by what’s happening in our minds,
Dan: [00:19:00] Yes,
Jody: we think it’s our partner, right?
We
Dan: Uhhuh
Jody: you know, the person with the sexy body or whatever is turning
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: on. Well, that, that’s not the case. one of the examples I always use is. I’ll say like, who’s the hottest celebrity that you
Dan: Uh
Jody: of? If they showed up at your door, you, you’d probably, you know, suddenly have some desire and they’ll say like Chris Hemsworth or something.
Dan: uh.
Jody: Okay.
Dan: Okay.
Jody: That’s who I would say anyway. Okay. And then I say, what if, what if you suddenly found out that he like a pedophile?
Dan: Uh.
Jody: All of a sudden that desire’s gone.
Dan: Yeah, definitely.
Jody: oh no, you want nothing to do with that? So point is it’s happening way
Dan: head.
Jody: heads.
Dan: Then we realize it’s not just chemistry. Yes.
Jody: And so. You have to figure out what that means.
Even then,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: is the mindset that is going to help you want it? If you want to want it,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: and [00:20:00] just be open to, I want to want it. And so I’m gonna figure out what that looks like for me in the end.
Dan: That’s really good. Good, good. So it’s, is it like taking baby steps then to figure out, well, I can’t get all the way there, but I can do this. That might create a little arousal. It’s like opening the door just a little bit in that direction.
Jody: It is, it is definitely opening the door. the other thing is our minds are so powerful. So if I’m walking around saying to myself, even maybe I don’t even talk to other people, about this, but I say to myself, don’t really need sex. I don’t like it. I don’t want it.
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: Your brain wants to be right
Dan: Yes.
Jody: thinking and believing about yourself.
Dan: We love that self reinforcement, definitely.
Jody: And so you’ll do everything in your power to make that true part of your brain, your subconscious brain. You can override that with willpower, but
Dan: Sure. Sure.
Jody: because we’re operating in the subconscious brain most of the time. And so if I just shift my client to I want to want it,
Dan: [00:21:00] Uh
Jody: then I, we don’t, I don’t even give them assignments or steps or anything like that. I just send them on their way with a new thought rather than, I don’t want sex. I don’t like sex.
Dan: mm-hmm.
Jody: to want sex. I want to enjoy sex. and then maybe from there they go to, it’s possible that I could,
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: right. their brain will go to work.
Dan: To figure it out. Yeah.
Jody: Right. And from I want to want it, it’s possible that I could want it. Two, I want it is a, a process, but that happens more mentally than we tend to be like, okay, well let’s have an assignment. let’s take this action, let’s have this conversation with your spouse, or let’s, whatever. And, and that’s not wrong to do. I just find that it’s not necessary they will find the right actions if they have the belief that they’re a person who ultimately could want it and wants to want it.
Dan: We do tend to create in life what our goals are, aren’t we? Like if our goal really [00:22:00] is to live, I don’t know. Eat healthier. If that was a goal that one had, you tend to do that. But if you impose a goal that you really subconsciously didn’t wanna do you, we tend to not carry through with those things like a lot of New Year’s resolutions.
Jody: Yeah, I mean I would say that we tend to create what we believe is true about us.
Dan: Okay.
Jody: Um,
Dan: Um,
Jody: a lot
Dan: it’s.
Jody: goals, but they don’t believe it’s true that they could achieve them. They don’t believe it’s possible for them.
Dan: So it’s more like an identity that we adopt.
Jody: that’s right. So it’s an, it’s a slight identity shift, but not all the way to a place that’s unbelievable because if you don’t believe it’s true.
That’s why I want to want it as something they could get to believing.
Dan: Right.
Jody: starts shifting them in the right direction. whereas because a lot, that’s why, like you said, new Year’s resolutions are goals that a lot of people abandon because they, they didn’t truly believe that they were, not only that they could become [00:23:00] that, but that they already are that person.
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: just have to uncover it and like
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: it. And so that’s what we’re trying to do with coaching.
Dan: That is so good. All right. What’s the third theme that you see a lot?
Jody: okay. So the third thing that I see as a problem, and especially for people who grew up in maybe a conservative religion, um, I did, is that we go from where sex is kind of forbidden, if you
Dan: Yep.
Jody: Uh, we’ll call it a shouldn’t
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: to married where sex is expected and I will call it then a should.
Dan: Yes.
Jody: either a should or a shouldn’t, serve us as human beings.
Dan: How so?
Jody: Um, anything that’s a shouldn’t we tend to have even more desire around.
Dan: All right. ’cause we always want what We can’t have
Jody: Yeah.
Dan: uhhuh,
Jody: nature. It’s
Dan: right?
Jody: sexuality, it’s true with our food. It’s true with, like, you tell me I shouldn’t do something part, there’s [00:24:00] this plant, I live
Dan: Uh.
Jody: Diego area in Carlsbad, and there’s this plant. That my sister showed me a picture of, and she’s like, don’t ever touch this plant.
Dan: Guess what you wanna do?
Jody: it’s everywhere. She told me that if you touch it and then touch your eyes, you like, go blind. People go blind from
Dan: Really?
Jody: I
Dan: Okay.
Jody: it’s all over.
Dan: Uhhuh
Jody: I don’t even know if she’s right. I did look it up. It seemed to be true,
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: a succulent and it’s really pretty and bright orange and so people plant it in their yards and things and, and um, she’s told me if. You touch that and touch her eyes, you will go blind. time I walk by that succulent, I kind of want it because my brain’s like. Could that be true? Why is this plant everywhere? If that’s true, I kind of wanna touch it and see it’s like so compelling and it stands out right As
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: walks around my neighborhood, I’m like, there’s that plant again.
There’s that plant again. It’s like very relevant in my mind. And so it has a lot of power, it has a lot of weight. Um, that is just how we are, right? So this is why when you’re dating, all you wanna do is take your [00:25:00] clothes off and get down with your partner, right? And then we get married and suddenly all of that’s changed.
Dan: Yes.
Jody: it’s not only allowed and good, but now you have a spouse maybe who really wants that regularly, and it becomes a should, becomes an obligation because where else is, is your partner gonna get that need fulfilled? And this is what we’re supposed to do when we’re married and all whatever other stories and socialization you bring to it, which is the opposite of what draws us to something. You tell me I should do something and be like, really? Should I? I think I’ll do what I want. Thank you.
Dan: Yes,
Jody: back on our agency. Both of them actually push on our agency and that’s
Dan: yes,
Jody: I personally just believe that we understand our souls, understand the importance of agency so much that we will fight for it and that’s why we respond the way we do to, shouldn’t or should because it is pushing on our agency
Dan: Right.
Jody: I will do what I want.[00:26:00]
Dan: Yeah. Yeah, it, it’s again, coming back to that freedom. We like to protect that sense of freedom and agency at all costs almost, it seems
Jody: and so that decreases desire. It’s the opposite of what creates desire for us. Is this guilt or obligation?
Dan: uhhuh.
Jody: I. So what do we do about that is a big question that takes time. And, and I know you work with lots of couples on this, which I highly recommend getting some help because we’re, we’re all different in terms of what stories are driving us and what’s gonna be the way out.
But I’ll, I will just give a couple strategies for listeners and, the first one is to first own what’s true for you and communicate the truth to your spouse.
Dan: Yes.
Jody: So always say that what, what’s true might be I don’t have a lot of sexual desire right now. I, and in fact, don’t enjoy it, feels like an obligation to me. Um, that might be true, but usually there’s more to [00:27:00] the story than that. So I always say, let’s tell the whole truth the second half of the truth is, I wonder if that’s bad. I, I wish I did have it. I think that I should and also. don’t want you to feel rejected and I don’t want you to be mad at me, and I don’t want you to not speak to me. And sometimes I’m willing to just do it because you want to, or sometimes I do it in order to try to manipulate your emotions. But
Dan: Right.
Jody: thing I want for us to have another reason to not get along or to fight. So I don’t know what to do with all that. Like the whole truth is usually messy. It’s not
Dan: Yes.
Jody: it’s, it’s not as simple as a boundary.
A boundary would be like, if you do this, I’m gonna do this. I need to protect myself. This is a yes, this is a no. Right? Sometimes boundaries, but usually the whole truth is just messy. It doesn’t make any sense at all.
Dan: Yeah. And it’s full of contradiction. Sometimes it’s gray. Yeah. And that’s normal.
Jody: But it requires a lot of vulnerability
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: to tell the whole truth.
[00:28:00] Right. Um. This is something I learned from my sister, Natalie Clay, who also is a couple’s coach. Sh and I love this. She says, tell the truth like that, communicate it, and don’t think that you have to come to resolution at the end of that conversation.
Dan: That’s good.
Jody: So
Dan: Right?
Jody: of conversation we’re like, okay, well let’s agree on this and I’m gonna do that and you’re gonna do this and let’s try you.
Like, let it be messy. Let ask your spouse also to share their thoughts and feelings. Be open to hearing them. Don’t get defensive. in the end it’s like, well, thanks for sharing that. I don’t know what we’re gonna do about this, but thanks for taking a minute to listen. Like
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: be unresolved.
Dan: Yes.
Jody: share your truth as much as possible.
Dan: Be okay with the it not being resolved, at least not now.
Jody: because that is intimacy.
Dan: Yes, it is,
Jody: right?
Dan: right?
Jody: comes in so many different forms.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: physical intimacy. What’s [00:29:00] intimate is being vulnerable
Dan: Yes.
Jody: and creating a space where your spouse can be vulnerable. Whether or not they are up for it is up to them. But if you’re like, I’m here, I wanna hear it. I wanna hear your desires, your interests, your fears, your feelings, and I, some of your desires, I might be willing to. Fulfilling others. I may not, but I, I’m here to hear all of it, right?
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: the whole truth. The second step then to just allow the relationship to tolerate the tension that that will create. It kind
Dan: Right.
Jody: with like not having a resolution. Rightness. If you do get to it, simple resolution, great, but you don’t need to. That’s not necessarily the objective. we are all afraid Whether or not our relationship can withstand the tension
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: all of
Dan: Yeah.
Jody: it feels scary. It feels vulnerable.
We, we don’t wanna blow up our lives in our marriages, and we don’t wanna even deal with an unhappy person for a [00:30:00] few days,
Dan: Right.
Jody: our relationships can actually tolerate a lot more attention than what we allow for.
Dan: That’s true.
Jody: And the alternative is. We keep pretending or lying or resenting, or again, emotional ownership and we keep doing this game. So it’s kind of like, listen, you can have the, what I think of as clean pain, of like tension in your relationship because you’re both being vulnerable and telling the truth, and that’s uncomfortable for both people and it requires some space and some sorting through. Or you can have the dirty pain.
Dan: Uh huh.
Jody: Of the pretending, the, you know, placating, et cetera, but you’re gonna have some pain.
Either way.
Dan: Right, right.
Jody: of ’em is gonna move the marriage, give it the potential to move forward and for you to connect more. One of ’em is always gonna disconnect you,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: and that’s the, the dirty pain will [00:31:00] always be disconnecting in the end.
Dan: I am glad you brought up a clean pain and dirty pain. This is a theme that you teach a lot on, which I find so useful. And what you’re talking about reminds me of this couple that I’m working with where, um, without giving too many details, she has this tendency to fold into him to the point where she doesn’t have much of a self.
Like if he’s a little bit upset, like they’re planning this romantic evening. This was. supposed to unfold, and then, you know, they got a call from work or just something happened to derail them and it didn’t happen. It’s like, I’m upset, and her immediate reaction is, oh, well we can still do it, or we’ll just modify it.
We’ll do it later. It’s rushing in because she doesn’t enjoy the tension it could create to have a disappointed spouse, but as a result, she’s living in the dirty pain of not really having a self to bring to the marriage.
Jody: Yes.
Dan: they both recognize it, although they don’t have the words or the vocabulary to really put a finger on it yet.
and that’s why they’re in coaching now. They’re understanding and [00:32:00] realizing their pattern. But this is what, what’s created in this, because of that.
Jody: Yeah, and I mean, we do live in a day and age where we’re starting to understand emotions more. I think there’s a lot of people talking about the benefit of allowing emotions, but it is kind of a, a newer, newish thing, right? To be like, it’s okay for your spouse to be upset. It’s okay for your kids to be unhappy. and it’s not only, okay, it’s part of the healthy human experience. Like only sociopaths don’t experience the full range of emotion we’re
Dan: Right.
Jody: to. So it’s not even like something’s gone wrong, we think something’s wrong. So, I mean, it, it, it still something that of course innately we wanna, you know, protect all the people around us,
Dan: mm-hmm.
Jody: when you recognize it’s okay that they’re upset, how we work through challenges.
It’s not like when my spouse is unhappy or one of my kids is unhappy, I always have to remind myself they don’t have the [00:33:00] flu. My brain thinks so. Just like when they have the flu, I’m like, oh no. Do we need some medication? Do
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: doctor? You need to rest. And when they’re unhappy, my brain goes, oh no.
What can I do to make them happy? And I have to go,
Dan: That’s so true. Uhhuh,
Jody: wrong. They’re not sick.
Dan: Uhhuh
Jody: just having a human experience. And so then it becomes, for me, it’s turned into like, oh, I’m so sorry you’re feeling that way.
Dan: with compassion, right?
Jody: Yeah, yeah,
Dan: yeah, yeah.
Jody: is there anything I can do to help?
Dan: Uhhuh. But it’s not that you’re, this is going back to point number one. It’s not that you’re responsible for. All the time,
Jody: And, and if they think it is me, right? If it’s like, I can’t believe you won’t go to that thing with me or whatever, and, and
Dan: right?
Jody: at me. I, I, we have to be careful ’cause I don’t want it to come across condescending. Like, I’m sorry you feel that way.
Dan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jody: it is like, I can say that you’re upset by that and that’s totally valid.
I.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: I ideally it’s even like, tell me more why you’re feeling that way. Gosh, I, that’s totally understandable [00:34:00] and sometimes it’s, maybe I am willing, but it’s, in many cases, like you said, it’s, I’m so sorry. I just can’t do it from a genuine place.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: do it just to people. Please. I, I know I’ll be resentful if I do that.
My decision today is no, I’m so sorry that you’re upset, but you can be upset. I love you. I mean that that’s, it’s tough to do, but that that’s the ideal. That’s what an ideal marriage looks like.
Dan: That’s good. A little bit of tangent, why do you think it is that we’re coming into more fuller understanding of emotions now? At least it feels like we have better tools today to deal with it. This past weekend I spent time with my aunt. I never met my maternal grandmother. She was a short Scottish woman, and, uh, she lost her first baby six months, old while my grandfather was in World War ii.
He was a sailor. Off the coast of Scotland. So, they sent a telegram. Hey. Can you come home [00:35:00] because our baby Ann just died and I asked my aunt, how did you think your parents deal with that? Said, you know, they never talked about it much. It was kind of the generation of a stiff upper lip we just pressed forward.
And that kind of became the pattern in their whole life. And I can see how little bits of that kind of are generational. They kinda get passed down to my parents and, and so on. Having this inability to really understand what the emotional process is or being human or to allow for some negativity. I think a lot of people wanna live life like it’s all supposed to be, positive.
And if there’s anything negative, you kind of stuff it down and you try to lock it away. What are your thoughts on that attitude
Jody: Yeah,
Dan: that approach?
Jody: I, I think that for. You know, some previous generations before us, my grandparents That felt like the best way. And I think that’s what they thought was right. And that was how you lived an the most ideal life was, you know, choose [00:36:00] happiness and be positive. And so, I just wanna acknowledge that.
But I think over time, as we’ve studied not only our mental and emotional health, but also how, how that affects our physical health, and we have more technology and more research today
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: what they’ve found is that that actually is not ideal. It, it just doesn’t work. Right. All it does is. other problems.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: a, a book and a TED talk called The Upside of Stress
Dan: Okay.
Jody: McGonigal. That’s so good. As she talks about, she went around for years teaching people that stress causes heart disease and ulcers and all kinds of problems, and, and because that’s what we know cortisol does in the body. But what they discovered after more research was that stress doesn’t cause that Mad about stress or feeling bad that you have stress causes that,
Dan: Oh,
Jody: is
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: stress. So they, they have all these new studies that show that people who are stressed, live ideal lives because stress helps you hyperfocus on what matters,
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: some [00:37:00] stress is necessary and important to your best life. People with low stress had like life terms, less longevity and health and all of that. the people who were stressed but thought they shouldn’t be stressed had the worst outcomes.
Dan: Gotcha.
Jody: And so not only true with stress. That’s true with every emotion, every negative
Dan: Maybe anxiety and other things too. Yeah,
Jody: And, and unfortunately we’ve taken all of these good tools and knowledge, and then we’ve, now we’re pathologizing everything,
Dan: that’s right.
Jody: Like I, I didn’t know when I was a kid that I probably had social anxiety, but I didn’t know that term. So I just thought I was shy,
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: you know? And
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: say I have social anxiety.
So we’ve gone a little too far of diagnosing everything.
Dan: Yes, Uhhuh,
Jody: what I try to tell people is like, no, you’re just a human being.
Dan: uh.
Jody: It’s uncomfortable being a human being. And so, my point is I think that we’ve learned that there’s a lot of tools like meditation, breath work, coaching, even just [00:38:00] general self-care, like taking care of your physical health e exercise.
I used to think I was doing that to try to lose a few pounds. Well. Now I do it because I know I am mentally stronger and healthier and happier when I even just go for a walk.
Dan: Yes.
Jody: think it does way more, at least at my age, for my mental health than my physical health. and so I think we just have more knowledge, more tools, more studies and more ways to allow emotion.
And so it’s pretty cool. Yeah.
Dan: and just to wrap this all together, we can’t separate sex or the sexual dimension of the relationship from the emotional dimension and all these other areas. They’re, they’re so intertwined. They’re so.
Jody: Yeah.
Dan: interconnected. So as we be, become better emotionally, being capable of handling our own emotions or understanding and just being in it with our spouses,
Jody: Mm-hmm.
Dan: it helps everything else to be able to create more sexual friendship.
’cause there’s more room for two people to come up [00:39:00] in the marriage together to have something that we both wanna participate in.
Jody: Yeah, that’s right. And, and that emotional intimacy, like being willing to be vulnerable and a safe space for your spouse to be vulnerable
Dan: Uh huh.
Jody: the ideal physical intimacy as well. I
Dan: Yes.
Jody: it, it all goes hand in hand. Yeah, you’re right.
Dan: That’s so good. Great. Jody, before we close out, I didn’t prepare you for this question, so I’m kind of throwing this on you.
Jody: Cool.
Dan: Let’s say, people I. Learn how to, work on better emotional ownership of themselves. They’re working on their mindset and they’re watching out for their shouldn’ts and shoulds.
Now they’re at a healthier place. Do you have a black belt sex tip? Think of it this way, like they’ve mastered the basics. Now they’re ready to take things to the next level. What, what is one, tip you’d give a couple?
Jody: Gosh. Um, one of the things, and this can apply to sex, but it can apply to any part of your [00:40:00] marriage. One of the things I think is cool to do is to sit down with your spouse and ask them, what do you really want for our relationship,
Dan: Yes, Uhhuh. Love that
Jody: maybe it’s for your sex life, but just I, I, I think all of it.
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: interesting conversation and, again, not because you’re necessarily gonna agree with it all, or that you’re looking for a checklist of what to do or who to be or anything like that, but just like it’s so tempting for us to think that when we’re communicating with our spouse, my main job is to get them to hear me, understand my desires, my wishes.
Dan: Uh huh. It’s kind of funny. We do that. We don’t really listen. Uhhuh.
Jody: Yeah, and I mean, just go into it with the sole objective of better understanding what they want and, and you can even preface it with like, Hey, I’m not saying this because I’m necessarily gonna change myself at all. I just wanna know you better because you know, we’re not the same people we [00:41:00] were when we got married 20 years ago.
Dan: Uh huh.
Jody: And we have different desires and different interests, and I’m just curious. What do you want for our future, for our relationship, for our sex life, for our family, for our money?
Dan: Uh,
Jody: what, what’s your ideal? And, and I just wanna hear it. I just wanna know you better and usually they’re gonna reciprocate and they’re gonna wanna know what you want.
Dan: Uhhuh.
Jody: these conversations, I know I am guilty of not having them enough with my spouse, where it is just so easy, especially once you have kids and jobs and all that, to go through the motions of like getting through each day and who’s gonna pick the kids up from school and who’s gonna take out the trash and like. I feel like we lose sight of the fact that we can create anything we want in the future. And if we have discussions like that and we’re, we are working on things together, we’ll have at least some shared objectives and goals. I think it can really create, not just like getting through the [00:42:00] marriage, but like really having it be an amazing part of your life.
Dan: I love that. That’s great. Where can people go to learn more about you? Your work, your incredible book, your podcast and everything like that?
Jody: Oh, thank you. my podcast and book are both called Better Than Happy.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Jody: If you’re a podcast person, you can go check that out. my website has a bunch of free resources and stuff too. If people want more help, it’s just jody moore.com.
Dan: Great. Thank you very much.
Jody: thank you.
Dan: Thank you for listening to this episode, please share it along with our apps and timidly us. And just between us with their married friends. I promise they will thank you for life. If you want a more meaningful sexual and intimate connection in your marriage, I invite you to check out my, get your marriage on program.
Over a hundred couples have said this program packs tremendous value and has helped their intimacy grow to the next level. Now go get your marriage on.
