There are many reasons why a lot of us get off on the wrong foot when it comes to building an intimate marriage for the lifetime; there’s shame, purity culture, unmet expectations, and difficulty in communicating about intimate matters, just to name a few.
I’m excited for you to meet a couple that has faced all these challenges, like many of you, but have found hope in the progress they’ve made towards the intimate relationship they desire.
Cody and Mindy are a couple that I’ve gotten to get to know really well through my coaching program. They’ve taken the principles that we teach in their program, applied them, and they’re seeing real results in their relationship.
And I’m proud of them for being courageous enough to come on this podcast to share their journey and their experience with you, with the hope that some of you listening can find inspiration, hope, and healing in whatever phase of the journey you’re in right now.
After listening to this episode, if you and your spouse feel like you could use a huge boost in your relationship, please check out my get your marriage on program. You’ll see the details and lots of free information about it on my website.
One way to boost intimacy in your relationship is to learn mindfulness skills. And this has been proven in research over and over again. And in fact, one of the world’s most foremost researchers in this area, Dr. Chelom Leavitt, is going to be joining me for a three week long seminar series in the latter half of October. You won’t want to miss it!
Resources:
Sexual Mindfulness Seminar Series with Dr. Chelom Leavitt
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Dan: [00:00:00] There are many, many reasons why a lot of us get off on the wrong foot when it comes to building an intimate marriage for the lifetime, think about it. There’s shame, purity culture, unmet expectations. Difficulty in communicating about intimate matters, just the concept of sex itself and understanding the messiness of it all,
Just to name a few.
I’m so excited that you get to meet Cody and Mindy today. Cody and Mindy are a couple that I’ve gotten to get to know really well through my coaching program. They’re definitely one of my most favorite couples I’ve had the pleasure of working with. And I love them because they’re so courageous and they’re coachable and they’ve taken the principles that we teach in their program, applied them, and they’re seeing real results in their relationship. And I’m proud of them for being willing to come on this podcast, to have that courage, to share their journey and their experience with you, with the hope that some of you listening can find inspiration, hope, and healing in [00:01:00] whatever phase of the journey you’re in right now.
After listening to this episode, if you and your spouse feel like you could use a huge boost in your relationship, please check out my get your marriage on program. You’ll see the details and lots of free information about it on my website@getyourmarriageon.com.
One way to boost intimacy in your relationship is to learn mindfulness skills. And this has been proven in research over and over again. And in fact, one of the world’s most foremost researchers in this area is going to be joining me for a three week long seminar series in the latter half of October. Dr.
Shalom. Levitt is my guests that I have the pleasure of collaborating with, and you’ll learn more about her on my website and this wonderful seminar that’s available to you. I hope you sign up. You’ll see it@getyourmarriageon.com. Click on programs and then sexual mindfulness seminar series.
Dan (2): Cody and Mindy, it’s such an honor to have you on the Get Your Marriage On podcast today. I bet this was a bucket list item for you, right? Like, [00:02:00] I want
Mindy: Like I said, not on my bingo
Dan (2): talk about sex.
Mindy: not on my bingo card for what I was going to do this year.
Dan (2): No, no, not even remotely close, I’m sure.
Cody: it wasn’t on your bucket list. No. Okay.
Dan (2): For the sake of those that don’t know you, how’d you two meet? What’s your love story? Ha,
Mindy: to share our story because I share the factually correct version of it. Cody likes to leave out the details, but we met, we, we met at church. Uh, I was in grad school. We had mutual friends, but we’re in the same anyways, mutual friends. Um, and. I knew who he was, but this one particular summer that I was in grad school, like three of my friends kept talking about this guy, Cody, who had asked them out and they felt really bad.
Cause he was so nice, but they just didn’t, none of them had said yes. And so I was like, Oh man, this poor Cody guy, like I know who he is. And like, it’s so nice. And Oh, what a bummer. And then. But then he asked me out [00:03:00] and I said, yes. And so we know we’ve been married for 10 years, but he doesn’t leave out the part about, he asked out three of my friends and they said, no, I like to include it.
Cause I feel like it makes the story more correct.
Cody: Sometimes you have limited amount of time to share the whole story. So you just give the important details.
Mindy: Yeah. So we met at church. That’s
the short version. Yeah.
Dan (2): Man, those three other friends are really missing out
Mindy: Yeah,
One of them was actually in our wedding, so she’s fully supportive.
Dan (2): okay. Good. Yeah, yeah. The more I’ve gotten to know the two of you over the last few months, like, you two are just great, just good people, like, to the core. I love that. That’s why I think what you’re about to share today is so helpful.
Okay, so you’re married about ten years ago. You Uh, what was the state of affairs, or the state of your union, so to speak, in the marriage
Mindy: When we got married, um, we had decided together that we were not gonna sleep together until we got married. so Cody is actually the first person I had slept [00:04:00] with, And so I was going into marriage, like brand new to that. and I had come from a Christian background, like in the nineties, early 2000s with a lot of the purity culture stuff that, um, I actually had not really thought had, I had gotten a lot of messaging about, but then once we’d started kind of working with you and looking back, I realized I’d actually gotten a ton of messaging about it.
It was just very.
Subtle.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Mindy: And so I almost hadn’t really realized that. And so, looking back, I can see the expectations that I had going into marriage. Was, this is something that I’ve been told has basically been, if you’re not married, it’s, it’s really bad don’t,
but once you do get married, then it’s kind of your responsibility to have sex as much as possible because your husband’s going to need it is more like, I think the messaging I was getting was, sex like kind of belongs to the guy. And I like, I participate in it because I am married. I look at this point, this is like the Christian messaging I was getting, but
like once you get [00:05:00] married, then then I do participate. But ultimately it’s kind of like, because of the benefit for him. And then like, that’s how you have kids and stuff. But, so anyway, I, felt a lot of responsibility, I think coming into the marriage, like this is going to sort of be his, it’s going to be my responsibility if he enjoys this or gets enough or whatever. if I don’t have sex before I get married, then I can give him like my whole heart, like all that messaging. You know, if you, if you sleep with somebody before you’re damaged goods, like all, just all that stuff. And so I had followed all those rules and then we get married and. our wedding night was terrible.
It was physically painful for me. I had gotten just like, no, I never got the sex talk from my parents. I don’t even, I don’t even know how I knew what little information I knew. I, I don’t know,
but it was physically painful for me. I think we didn’t have true like penetrative sex for a couple of weeks, [00:06:00] despite trying a lot.
Cause I, we were both like, this is what we’re supposed to do. And this is something that we’ve been looking forward to. And so kind of right out of the gate, I’d followed all these rules supposedly to have like success. Like I’d made it to the finish line of getting married.
And then it was just awful. So it was hurt for me, which was emotionally kind of devastating.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Mindy: It was emotionally, I’m not sure if it was devastating for you, but it was like, for sure, there was a lot of disappointment and unmet expectations of like what the first few days, weeks, months of our married life was going to include. That was now like, just pretty much from the first time. I was suddenly like, this hurts. I feel so much pressure about this whole situation. I’m not living up to the expectations that I have for myself or that I think Cody has also of what’s going to happen here.
Dan (2): Right. Mm
Mindy: there was a lot of tears on our honeymoon.
Dan (2): [00:07:00] hmm.
Mindy: and pretty much from then it was bad. So we were talking about this before there was no like, Oh, our sex life used to be so good.
And. And that like what happened, it
was just bad from pretty much first time.
Dan (2): Uh huh.
Mindy: And I think it’s morphed into why it’s bad. Like that it’s changed. It’s no
longer, it’s not painful now. And like, that was not part of why we were involved with you. But, been bad from the get go in like a, just disappointing, crushing. All these expectations are just to
completely unmet.
Dan (2): Right. Right, Anything you want to add to that, Cody?
Cody: No, I mean, that’s accurate for both of us. And I think I would just, there’s a lot of excitement and expectations leading up to getting married and what. Our sex life would be, and what, what it would look like. And then to have the reality of what it was and have the challenge that it was, Left both of us with a lot of hurt [00:08:00] and unmet or missed expectations or just, yeah, it was just hard from the very, from from the get go.
Dan (2): Right, it’s a big reality check, wasn’t it? Right. Right. Right.
Mindy: And a lot of sits of like, this isn’t fair. ’cause I had followed like all the rules, so to speak.
Dan (2): Right.
Mindy: And I was told like by following all the rules.
then it, then it can be so good.
So like, don’t break the rules because then it won’t be as good. And I hadn’t broken any of ’em and it was terrible.
Dan (2): Right. Okay. So fast forward a few years. What was intimacy like? In your relationship, how did you both adapt to the new realities?
What patterns did you develop as a relationship?
Cody: It kind of turned into, list so on my end, but just, it felt like sex was a duty. It, like that’s what I, the messaging I was picking up, like it was just, we had to, we, we did it because we’re married and we should do it and have like,
Mindy: well, he’s talking about me.
Cody: [00:09:00] Yeah, that’s, that, that’s the messaging I would pick up on.
And for me. Anytime I would try or initiate, it would lead to a decent amount of rejection, to my efforts to try to initiate any sort of, physical intimacy or just like physical touch of any sort. which was pretty discouraging and crushing over the course of time.
So, what it eventually ended up leading to is just me eventually stopping initiating because. It just got so hard. And so like, it just hurt a lot emotionally. what felt like a lot, a lot of nose over the course of time that just kind of seemed to build up. so that, that’s kind of where, how we adapted it in a, in a bad way.
what my action ended up being. So I was
Mindy: always playing a game of reset the clock, like he would not initiate. And so that was leaving up to me. I never like cared. I got to the, I remember thinking like, I don’t get what the big deal is. Like people,
Dan (2): what’s the fuss?
Mindy: what [00:10:00] is all the fuss about? Like people are having sex all the time and like, apparently really loving it.
People are addicted to it. I don’t get it. Like what I am missing something here. but it was always a game for a game, but like mentally I was always kind of resetting the clock of like, if I have sex with him tonight, then that means I have bought myself However many days till I have to do it again,
Dan: Uh
Mindy: knowing in my head that this is a part of a relationship that is supposed to be good and is supposed to be a blessing and is supposed to be enjoyable and like connects you at the very core of your marriage. Like knowing that was supposed to be what was happening and knowing that none of that was happening. Just feeling like, well, I don’t know what to do. I mean, this is just how it’s always, this is my only experience is, is this. And I just know it’s so mismatched from. Everything like all these books, all these other people’s experiences.
Like what the heck is going on?
Cody: Well, and to get back to your question, Dan, like it evolve? And where do we get to [00:11:00] eventually, basically found out and like over the course of time, we are very good, like side by side with each other in terms of like tasks of whenever we became parents, we’re really good.
Like parents, of our children, like together, we’ve been in different work scenarios in the past where we are basically like, we’re working side by side on a task. And so we’re, we’re good coworkers and we’re good. Yeah. Co parents with each other with our kids, but that’s kind of was like the main focus and that was the main part of our relationship was just the side by side work of the day to day of running our house and And less so the like face to face intimate emotional aspect of our relationship.
Mindy: Yeah.
I
would never have said our relationship was unhealthy. If you had said like, is your marriage healthy? I would have said, yeah, totally. Because I really like Cody and he really likes me. And we don’t really fight that often except like about sex, it would always be super tense. So we would just kind of like, not really talk about it,[00:12:00]
but everything else was fine. and so I think that masked for a lot of years. like maybe how we didn’t realize how big the problem was, because everything else was fine. And also I, I was never really sure, like, what help do we need? Because if we go to a marriage counselor,
Dan: hmm.
Mindy: I didn’t ever really feel like that was the solution.
Dan: hmm
Mindy: but I wasn’t sure. And I didn’t really think it was like a medical thing either. And so we just, anyways, I think I would have said, Oh yeah, our relationship is fine. Great. Because for the most part, we get along really well and like, our kids are good. And like, we do things really well together, but there was this piece that’s supposed to be like the piece that’s unique only to us that was just kind of almost non existent,
Dan (2): Right or fraught with a lot of it was very loaded. It was a lot
Mindy: super loaded, so high pressure, really tense, but it was easy to only have those moments every so often
Dan (2): Mm hmm, you can
Dan: tolerate
Mindy: reset the clock again[00:13:00]
Dan (2): right?
Mindy: be fine until we have to, we have to. address it again.
Dan (2): Right Gotcha. And everything started to change for you. What was the impetus for seeking out some help and seeing another way things could be?
Mindy: well, after, so we have two, we have two kids. Um, and after our second daughter was born, we didn’t have sex for over a year between like being between the pregnancy and herping postpartum and stuff. and I was like, that seems like a fairly major to get to.
And It’s, it’s one thing to know, like, Oh, postpartum, it take, you know, just takes a little recover and all that.
But when you’re like, no, it has literally been a calendar year
Dan: hmm. Mm hmm.
Mindy: that that’s kind of like a big number, you know?
some point after, I mean, I think we had like started having sex again every now and then, but it was not any different than it was any of the rest of the time. And my, um, Instagram algorithm fed me. Something to do with the intimately [00:14:00] us app. I don’t know if it was an ad or if somebody else had tagged it. Anyways, my algorithm fed me this like Christian sex app. And I was like, huh. And I sort of made a mental note, like that would, we would tick enough boxes on that. Like I should come back to this.
So I think I downloaded it. Cause I was just intrigued enough at the concept of it.
downloaded it, which I guess put me on your mailing list and so then I would get these emails that I was like, I never really signed up for these, but I guess it comes with the app.
And so like, okay, so, you know, I’d read them every week and I hadn’t talked to Cody about it. Cause again, this is such a high pressure
Dan: Yeah.
Mindy: And I was like, I don’t even know what steps I’m to take here. An app doesn’t seem like really the answer either. So then when you’re releasing information about your next level of coaching program, it was one of those scenarios where you just kind of hear something and you’re like, that is what we need.
Dan: Mm
Mindy: That is the solution. where I was always before going, I don’t think a [00:15:00] marriage counselor is really exactly what we need here, but we need, we need some external help. I just don’t know what. Anyway, so when you release the, next level program, I was like, okay. This is, this is exactly what we need.
And so, I think I listened to the call about, you know, about it and enough to know, and I came in to Cody’s office and
Dan: hmm.
Mindy: I think I was kind of like laughing, but just like, you’re never going to guess what I want to tell you that I think we need to do.
Dan (2): Uh
Mindy: And then, um, he was immediately on board
Dan: Did he fall
Dan (2): off his chair first?
Dan: I
Mindy: just.
Cody: like, you
Dan: Who
Dan (2): are you? Where’s my wife? Mm
Mindy: hm.
But we hadn’t really. We were not on a quest to find help necessarily, but it was just something that I knew we needed. It just didn’t have any clue even where to start. And so anyway, when the Instagram algorithm fed me the solution, I jumped on it.
So that was probably six months ago or something like that, six or
seven months ago. so here we are.
Dan (2): So tell me about some of the [00:16:00] messaging that stood out to you that felt different from what you hear from other places.
Mindy: one of the things, the tagline, I don’t know if you made it up or if this is something that you borrow, but, um, like a therapist is to help you heal and a coach is to help you win.
And I was like, that, that right there speaks to me because I don’t necessarily think we have. There was not like trauma or anything where I felt like I was trying to heal from something, but it was like, we are really losing here.
Dan: Right.
Mindy: somebody
Uh
Dan: huh.
Mindy: And then with having kind of like a structured, curriculum to go through when you are so lost in it all, and not even knowing where to start having someone go start here,
here’s start here. And then here can be your next step after that. And here’s your next step after that. That was really helpful for me because I thought we need help, but I don’t even really know what help we need.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Mindy: So that’s a big confidence boost of like, I can just show up and have somebody like drip feed me some stuff to get our wheels turning [00:17:00] and then we can start some conversations that we don’t even know how to have on our own.
Dan (2): Most times people like in a marriage You always have one that’s has more desire than the other person So the lower desire person is usually like is afraid to join programs because they’re afraid they’re going to be told You just need to ramp up sex more you need to you know Do more more more when it already feels like a burden, but it was different for you coming into this.
What about it?
Mindy: Yeah. I’m definitely the lower, I don’t, I think, I don’t know if I’m lower or just because we’ve talked about like a spontaneous and a responsive, like Cody,
what he can just be in the mood, like kind of instantly. And
I’m not that way. And so it feels like I’m a lower desire. I’m not even sure if that’s true, but just the way our desire manifests itself,
mine is just a longer lead time. and so, yeah, I’ve, I’ve never felt like the bad guy. Even though I know I have a lot of work and I, I bring a lot of the issues. It’s not, it’s not just one or the other, but I’m, you know, I’m fully participating, but I [00:18:00] don’t feel like I’m the problem to be fixed. I do feel like it is, it is a hundred percent Cody and a hundred percent me being coached.
Dan: Right.
Mindy: equally, working on ourselves,
which has felt like a team effort to grow and not like. Anybody playing catch up to somebody else?
Dan (2): Great. So then we started working together, and then I want to hear about the milestones, and like what you learned, and some of the aha moments, your epiphanies, and also some of your frustrations in the process.
Cody: so some of the milestones or some of the things that like have been good and helpful, since we’ve been meeting with you and working through the program is going back to what Mindy is saying a little bit, we have known that there is an issue and there’s a problem that we need to address, um, but we haven’t known how to address it or the proper way to do that. And part of that is even just like talking about it. Like, how do we talk about. What’s going on and in our relationship and so [00:19:00] you and the next level course have just helped us have some vocabulary to be able to like, talk about certain aspects of our relationship. I think thinking in terms of like, what’s a, what are breaks for you versus what are accelerators sexually or. What she talked about earlier in terms of being a spontaneous type person who could have sex the drop of a hat versus a responsive person and it takes it has a little more lead time and and how the the dynamics of those are at play and What that means like one’s not better than the other or How you like to frequently talk about calming down, calming the heck down.
Dan: Uh huh.
Cody: that’s particularly helpful and still is an area of efforts and work on my part. But, um,
Dan (2): And mine, but yeah. Uh huh.
Cody: Um, another thing that was really helpful and I think is just really Good and kind of [00:20:00] you to help me work through is just like an issue of like self confidence I’ve got a whole lot of stuff in the background and from my past and everything that has led to a lot of Just timidity or just lack of confidence in myself and just come being comfortable And who God made me and how I am, and that has effects on Mindy and our relationship too.
And so you’ve been able to recognize that and me understand that a little bit more, have like, and think about myself and how I can be confident who God made me and how I am, that’s been a, a major, so yeah,
Mindy: we have worked on, a couple of different aspects of physical touch that have been at play. I would have, I would always consider myself not necessarily super high on physical touch,
just generally as a person.
Um, and Cody is high on physical touch. [00:21:00] And I, I think before I was just chalking a lot of our issues up to like, Cody’s a big physical touch guy and I’m just not,
Dan (2): Uh
Dan: huh.
Mindy: then we’re kind of realizing with just the way our sexual relationship started, I was getting a lot of messaging, whether it was meant to be sent or not from Cody, like any physical touch felt loaded to me.
Dan: Mm
Mindy: Hold my hand to me. That is ultimately you’re just trying to get me to have sex with you. You’re hoping the handholding leads to sex.
Dan (2): Yes.
Mindy: me a kiss
Dan: Uh
Mindy: huh.
it’s like putting some deposits in hoping that this is going to lead somewhere. And so I would just feel like so, so much pressure with any kind of physical interaction.
I mean,
even if like the most mild, like just handholding.
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: Or a hug on the couch or whatever, which is feeling like I can’t even say yes to this because I’m going to have to say, I’m just going to say no now
Dan: [00:22:00] Great.
Mindy: have to say no later. so that’s like, one of the things I’m working on is not loading up every single physical interaction with all this. messaging that’s not even really there. we have done this exercise with you of having some sort of physical contact while both
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: Relaxing.
Dan: Yes.
Mindy: that’s been hard to be really honest. It’s really embarrassing how hard something like a hug can be when it’s been so loaded and have so much pressure behind it for so many years.
And like, you’re married. It’s like, I
can’t even I can’t even hug you without being stressed out.
Um, It’s just
Dan: like
you’ve
Dan (2): become allergic to hugging.
Mindy: well, yeah,
Dan: You have a you
Dan (2): have a response to the hug.
Dan: Uh,
Mindy: uh huh.
to feel, to like say that out loud, kind of, you know, like, wow, this is, this is really bad, you know? we were practicing, a particular exercise that you had given us, and I completely [00:23:00] understand the point of the exercise, you know, hug each other for a long time.
It’s literally just about the hug and just relax, use the other person’s body to just relax.
Dan: Mm
Mindy: like, I get it. And it was so hard for me. I just felt so stiff and I really didn’t enjoy it, but I was like, well, I’m brand new to this. Let me like, give, give me a few times. I’m probably three times in. Cody had, had asked to do it without our shirts.
He was like, let’s do this exercise, but let’s have more skin to skin contact. And I was not prepared for him to ask
that just like in the moment. I was just immediately like, no, that was, that seems so overwhelming
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: And I just said, I can’t, I just, I can’t. So no, and so we did the hug with our shirts on he’s he’s so upset the whole time because he had felt like I was Rejecting him. Yeah, and what I was saying no to it’s just the shirts off [00:24:00] part Like we had this whole just miscommunication of the whole thing. He felt like I was just rejecting him as a person I felt like he was just springing this really overwhelming thing on me and it’s like we’re literally just hugging each other But this
hug had so it just like kind of uncovered It So many layers of things that needed better communication
and growth.
Dan (2): Uh huh. Mm
Mindy: but that’s when I think we sort of realized like, Oh, this is why I have this reaction to all these just very mild expressions of physical affection is because I’ve got this loaded of like, we can’t even have a hug without I’m trying to like take our shirts off and have sex and stuff. And that really wasn’t it at all.
And anyway, so it’s been really good to notice these thought patterns that I think we would not have uncovered otherwise. so we’ve had a few, growth instances that I’ve kind of gone, Oh, I’m, I’m like, so proud of us for having these, like this situation is so different than it would have been six months ago.
So this is a good example. He asked [00:25:00] last night, yesterday afternoon, he said, Hey, let’s have sex. Let’s have sex tonight after the girls go to bed. And at that particular moment of the afternoon, I’ve still have snack time. I have dinner prep. I have bedtime. I have a lot of work in front of me
And so like right in that minute, I’m not like, yes, let’s go. Can’t
wait for 8
Dan: huh. Uh
Mindy: huh.
I said, maybe thinking like right this moment, I don’t care. That’s on my mind. I don’t care, but, but genuinely maybe. And I think six months ago he could have said that. And I would have just been dreading. I either would have been really resentful of like, well, now you’ve just. Ruined my evening and my afternoon because now I have to dread doing this tonight.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Mindy: So be mad. But it was the work that we’ve been doing. I was like, maybe it was a genuine, I might be able to, you know, that’s five hours from now. And I’m, I got a lot of lead [00:26:00] time to think about this. Like maybe I, maybe I will be in the mood. And we got to about seven, I think we’re like kind of getting the kids up the stairs. And I was like, Hey, the needle hasn’t moved. At all for me mentally,
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: like I think it’s a no, you know, I, and that’s actually the first time that’s happened.
Um, and I was thinking genuinely, I’ve like kind of, I’ve been thinking about it too, or like, Oh, I might be in the mood.
And I was able to say honestly and genuinely
no. And not feel I was not one bit resentful. I was able to trust that Cody, if he was disappointed in that response would be able to handle himself and that I would not have to care, take his response to
Dan: Yes. Uh huh.
Mindy: And I was just like, so proud of us in that moment of being able to be like one.
I was just genuinely very curious about maybe I can get in the mood and like, maybe this will be really fun. And then being able to honestly say, Yeah. No, that’s not going to happen [00:27:00] tonight.
And there’s been a few other times where we’ve started that same interaction
Dan: Mm
Mindy: hmm.
like, he’ll initiate. And I’m like, I’m really tired. And I’m like, and then like 10 minutes later, we’re having sex because I’ve just stayed curious and he’s kind of like not soaked and just sort of stayed in it a little bit. And actually I could get there.
Dan: Yeah.
Mindy: so it’s just taken the, pressure release it. Valve off
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: and just made everything a lot just more curious and genuine and low pressure
Dan (2): I, if I could comment a little bit, too, in your, just, what you’ve developed, this capacity that you’ve developed is, I can also, head towards that direction, like, whether that starts with a hand holding or the kissing or a hug or something, and it doesn’t have to mean I, you I put on a full blown production.
It, I can say no at any point in this, in the, in the steps, but you also love your husband. It’s also like, [00:28:00] well, maybe I can get there. And there are many instances where, where you can, and it’s, it’s definitely, uh, you’re both more free in
Mindy: Yeah. Yeah. The concept of sex being for me in any capacity is a game changer. I think
I
Dan: more
Dan (2): about that, that female centric approach to, towards sex.
Mindy: I think maybe that comes from whatever messaging I was getting, like before I got married, hadn’t nowhere in there was that sex was for me somehow. Not that like it will be terrible for you. That’s not the message I was getting either, but I had no, awareness of my pleasure in it, mattering at all. if I get pleasure from it, like that’s sort of a side benefit
Dan: Uh huh.
Mindy: to it all. and so once I kind of grabbed hold of that concept and this sounds, I guess this sounds bad, but like once I stopped worrying about if like he was going to have an orgasm or not as the bar of this was a successful sexual [00:29:00] encounter or not,
Dan: Uh
Mindy: I kind of tossed that out of my mind, the pressure was gone.
Um, and it was kind of a hard question, I think, to answer when you asked, maybe kind of quick into meeting with you about like, what does good sex mean to me?
Dan (2): Right. You’re blank. I
Dan: don’t
Mindy: know. huh.
Dan (2): Right. Mm
Mindy: what that means. Wow. I’ve been married for 10 years. I have no idea. And I think at one point you said many, if someone offered you like great sex, it’s like someone offering you like a delicious dessert.
Like you wouldn’t turn down or like a great plate of food. Yeah. You want to have that. And if someone’s offering you like great sex, wouldn’t you want that? And I remember being like, I don’t think sex has ever been offered in like a wonderfully appealing way. Like, I don’t, I don’t,
know what that even Looks like and this is not because Cody is bad at it.
It’s I think like the whole mindset about it[00:30:00]
Dan (2): Right.
Mindy: sex being so amazing and it’s like a concept that I’d obviously heard referenced before
especially like, you know in a Christian context of like Christian marriage is like where sex is like the best
Dan (2): Uh
Dan: huh.
Mindy: like if this is the best And all these other people sleeping with everybody, not being married to him.
No concept of like God in their life are loving it.
Dan (2): Uh huh.
Mindy: What has gone wrong here?
Dan (2): You’re right. Right.
Mindy: I would love to be offered great sex.
I don’t think I have a clue what that. It’s just totally blank.
Dan: Gotcha.
Mindy: And so the, the concept of like it being for me in any way is great.
Dan (2): Uh huh. It is. Great. How about you, Cody? Any comments on that?
Cody: yeah, the idea of making the focus of any sort of sexual encounter be from, in my case, Mindy focused and all about her [00:31:00] enjoyment of it and her pleasure of it. It’s like, well, that sounds great to me too. likes I don’t think I was Seeking to make it about me. I think we were just trying to figure it out, but I mean, that intentionality of like, how can I best make sure Mindy is like the star of the show, of the show in this situation, like that sense.
After the fact, it wasn’t something beforehand that I would think I’m going to intentionally do this.
Dan: Uh
Cody: huh.
I don’t know if I would say that’s like, it was a super new concept, but I mean, I guess it was a new concept for me.
Dan: Anything else you want to share from your experience?
Mindy: we are not how we joke. Like we’re not a good to great story. This is not like we’re all right. And this is just like taking us to the next level. No pun intended.
Dan: Uh Uhhuh.
Mindy: We were terrible, not good to great, terrible to, oh great [00:32:00] my actually, I can like, kind of imagine what that would be. And maybe that’s like, that’s possible for us. So we’re
Uhhuh.
Dan: You have hope now
Dan (2): Uhhuh?
Mindy: yes, so we’re
Cody: not good to great yet.
Mindy: Yeah. Like, I think we’re just still in the middle of a lot of work and it’s, it’s, you know, It’s taking us a lot longer than I was thinking it would. I don’t know. I don’t know what time frame I thought things were going to be turning around, but I can see, I can look back at the last six months of work that we’ve done and think, wow, we have come a really long way and we still have a really long way to go. But the fact that we’ve already come this far makes me know and hopeful like that it is possible to keep moving that far, even like further down the road. And so, yeah, I just feel like for anyone who listens to this, who feels like it’s terrible, like I don’t even know where to start. Okay. Well, that’s us.
So there’s always hope if, if you can like find the right resource and help for you. you know, cause I think sex in [00:33:00] a. In a loving, committed marriage is what, I mean, God’s not gonna go, Oh, is that what you want? I’m not going to help you do that. You know,
Dan (2): Uhhuh.
Mindy: that’s what, that’s what God wants for us.
Um, so yeah. So I don’t want to emphasize we were like so terrible, mostly emphasize we’ve come a long way and it’s growth is possible. I think no matter where your starting point is. And as embarrassing as it might be to be like, yeah, our sex life has been terrible since night one. Like that’s okay. You can grow from there.
Dan (2): Uhhuh. It doesn’t have to stay there.
Dan: Definitely.
Dan (2): Great. Good.
Mindy: And I was
thinking, wow, people, I, I totally understand now why that, like the phenomenon of empty nesters who get divorced, like the kids leave.
And then they realize, Oh, there’s nothing left here. I’m not saying that would have happened to us or anything, but I can see how, if, if we had continued this for another 10 years, Okay.
Without intervention and without help, like how much worse, [00:34:00] I mean, just, I can totally, I have so much like sympathy for people in that situation. It’s like, Oh, get help sooner.
Dan (2): Yes.
Mindy: That does not have to happen. I don’t want that to happen to us. So I’m like, we’re doing the drastic steps to invest whatever it takes to keep our relationship from heading that direction.
And we’ve really seen the benefits even just in six months. So we’re
excited for like the next six months and see. What’s next?
Dan (2): Yes. Good. Good. How about you, Cody? Any parting thoughts or, anything else you want to add?
Cody: No, not a whole lot. I’m just really thankful for you and for your investment in us and your care for us. And I know that you also are invested in other couples to help them in their relationships and in their, marriages. So anyway, I would say it’s been a lot of work for the past six months It’s it’s taken a lot of intentionality and a lot of like I this isn’t just gonna get better by itself So [00:35:00] it’s been a lot of intentional effort on both of our parts, but it’s been so worth it And I mean of all the things for me to like be all in on like I want to be all in on My relationship with Mindy and it’s worth my my marriage is worth every bit of effort You That I can to make it as healthy as I can make it.
And so you’re helping us do that. So I, I, I, I just am really grateful for you and what you’ve put together, your resources and for how you’ve been invested in us.
Dan (2): Well, you’re very, very welcome and very deserving. Now, I, I like what you said, Cody, because you can choose your heart, right? It’s hard work to change those patterns,
right? And showing up to calls, calendaring, uh, arranging childcare and so on. This takes a lot of, a lot of uh, effort.
Yet, so is living in the, the way things were. That’s also hard.
Cody: hmm. [00:36:00] Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Dan (2): if status quo stayed, that, that’s also hard. So, choose your hard. Which heart is actually easier?
Mindy: You know, the analogy I talk about sometimes of like when you clean out a super messy junk closet, you got to
pull it all out to see what’s in there and you have a huge mess. Well, then you pull it all out
Dan (2): Yeah.
Mindy: room. It’s like everywhere. It looks like a bomb went off.
Dan (2): Yes.
Mindy: to just put all of it back, like all the same junk you want to, you got to pull it out, through it all and then only keep the good stuff.
And so I feel like that’s sort of the process that we’re doing.
Dan (2): I like that analogy. Cause when you’re done reorganizing the closet, it’s like, this is good,
Dan: but
Dan (2): you avoid, right. But up until that point you avoid doing that work. Cause Oh, it’s going to be
Dan: such a mess.
Mindy: And in the middle of it, it’s like, wow, I have a huge mess in here because I pulled it all out. Stuff I didn’t know was in there is in here. I don’t yuck, you know?
Dan (2): Yeah, that’s really good.
Mindy: So we’re [00:37:00] in the process of sorting through and putting back what we want to keep.
Cody: Yeah.
Dan (2): Great. Well, you’re an inspiration to everyone. Thank you. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Mindy: Thanks, Dan. Thanks.
Dan (2): Great.
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