Let’s face it—if you’re married, disagreements are inevitable. And sometimes, those disagreements feel like gridlock. That’s when it seems like there’s no win-win—only one of you can get what you want, and the other has to give in. It can feel like it’s either his way or her way, with no middle ground in sight.
In this episode, you’ll discover 10 practical steps for having meaningful conversations about the tough stuff—so you can move forward together and build a deeper, more connected relationship.
And if one of the challenges you’re facing is a mismatch in sex drives, be sure to check out our FREE class. You’ll walk away with real solutions you can start using today—no therapy required.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Episode 250
Dan (2): The reality is, if you’re married to your spouse, chances are you’re going to have disagreements. They’re gonna have differences, and sometimes those differences are gonna feel very, very deep.
[00:01:00] They’re gonna feel like gridlock. Gridlock is when you both can’t have it.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It has to be one or the other. It feels like in your relationship, either he prevail or they prevail, but you both can’t get what you want. And I am no stranger to this in my own marriage. I am not immune. I have a very normal marriage. last February, my wife and I had a very deep and hard conversation about something that I really wanted in our marriage and she really did not want in our marriage.
But we’re able to talk about it with enough calm and work through it enough and hash it out enough that we could both arrive at a new place. That’s what we want to talk about today.
That’s that skill of learning how to have meaningful conversations about the hard things so that you can actually get to the next level together and have a more meaningful, intimate relationship.
I wanna talk about intimacy just for a moment here. Intimacy isn’t just always good feelings [00:02:00] by definition. Intimacy is about closeness. It’s “Into-me-see”, true intimacy is revealing about what’s inside your heart. It’s also making enough room for your spouse to be able to feel safe, to share and feel what’s going on inside of his or her heart too.
So your ability to address the difficult areas of your marriage is actually an intimate activity. Even if it’s uncomfortable, even though there’s conflict, your ability to bring that to you, even though you don’t agree, that is an intimate act because it’s about revealing and sharing. Even if there are differences, it’s pulling back the curtain just to reveal just enough so your spouse gets a clear glimpse on what’s going on inside you.
So real intimacy requires a great deal of honesty and frankness and tact. And always kindness as we approach these types of conversations, because the ultimate goal of an intimate relationship is this [00:03:00] collaborative alliance with your spouse that invites intimacy into the relationship because it’s really about making a room for two people, for both people in the relationship to have a say.
So you’re both building something you both want to be a part of.
That collaborative spirit only happens when you’re able to have deeper and even the hard conversations, which is a very intimate act. Okay.
Why is it so hard to have, have these conversations, right? Why do so many couples avoid the hard conversations in marriage? Well, it’s never really pleasant.
these things aren’t easy to talk about. I. So there’s never a good time to have these hard conversations, and so you just gotta accept that if you’re waiting for a better time, there won’t be a better time. Now is probably one of the better times. Now, if you’re deep in a fight, probably not a great idea, but when things are relatively calm.
This is when you start to have these growing conversations, these deeper conversation. [00:04:00] Another reason why couples avoid the hard conversations is it ends up in a fight and it’s because you’re both very reactive to each other, right? You say something, they’re hurt, so they try to say something that hurts you.
So you’re hurt and so you hurt them back. And this is a cycle.
That being said, if you are avoiding things, ’cause you’re afraid to end up in a fight. I want you to challenge yourself to try to have the deeper conversation and couch it in a way, I don’t wanna fight with you, but I wanna talk about something and explore it with you. ’cause I love you and I want to have a deeper relationship with you.
And last of all, there are people that tend to avoid, difficult conversations because they’re avoiders and they’re probably married to someone that’s an avoider. They’re not the confrontational type, right? So in the spirit of keeping the peace in the relationship. They both decide this is better, uh, left unsaid.
Let’s both sweep it under the rug. Pretend it’s not there. Can’t we just be happy and get along and move on? And you can do [00:05:00] that. But as you bury things deep, it eats away at the foundation of your relationship.
And is not a true peace. Trying to quote unquote keep the peace isn’t real peace ’cause it’s not based in honesty and truth.
So it isn’t until you’re willing to bring your whole self to the relationship and your spouse is willing to bring their whole self to the relationship and say, let’s talk about this and address this now. that’s not when you’re really gonna find the big change in your relationship.
you are now ready for my 10 step framework.
Step number one, you’re probably not gonna be surprised to hear me say this is to calm the heck down.
You can’t have a difficult conversation when you’re emotionally stimulated or highly reactive. You won’t be able to think straight, neither will your spouse and you’ll not be productive at all.
When our limbic system hijacks our brain and we flip our lid, and we no [00:06:00] longer gain full access to our neocortex, it’s impossible to have a deep conversation that’s meaningful. It is just not gonna happen.
So you have to learn how to calm the heck down. So step one, learn how to calm the heck down.
And if you’re not calm, do not engage in the hard conversation.
step 2
Dan (2): Step two, choose one specific scenario to discuss. Now when you’re too general, like you know, you always are such a slob, that is not helpful for these kinds of conversations.
If you can be specific, like yesterday, I noticed you left your shirt on the floor very specific.
It’s a lot easier to deal with in those things, so choose a scenario that you can discuss that there are facts about, and the more specific, the better.
step 3
Dan (2): Third step is, separate the facts from the meanings. Begin by focusing on the facts of the situation as they are, and you need to recognize within yourself how you [00:07:00] interpret those facts.
And if it’s like, I saw the shirt on the floor again after having the conversation about picking up after ourselves, and I made that mean that, you just don’t care about cleanliness in the home. Do you see that’s separating the fact from the interpretation of it.
step 4
Dan (2): Step four is you need to see your role.
It’s not saying you’re entirely at fault, but because we’re in a relationship system. we always play some sort of a role in a relationship. The more clearly you see what your role is, this helps.
Now, if you have a difficult time seeing what your role is, sometimes you can think about what you’re complaining about and what is the complaint, and that can often be a trailhead, to helping you lead to where you’re probably taking too much responsibility or too little responsibility in your relationship.
And if you see that you have a bigger role to play in this at step four, stop, do not proceed to step five. Instead, you’re gonna stop here and then [00:08:00] address your role in the relationship, or you’re gonna apologize for it or commit to making this aspect better. Let’s say the situation with the shirt on the floor, you decide after thinking about what your role in it is, is that you probably do have impossible standards for your spouse and you expect every little thing to be picked up.
And you’re just an inflexible person and you realize that must be a really difficult person for my spouse to live with. I think I can do better in that area. so I can probably let loose a little bit when an occasional shirt is left out. That’s just an example. I’m not saying that is a solution, it’s gonna be person to person specific in your situation, but do you see how it’s this ability to be a little more introspective?
What is my role in the matter? Or it could be it’s because I harp on my spouse so often. Maybe they’re rebelling. It’s an act of rebellion. They’re purposely leaving it out just ’cause they know it’ll make me mad ’cause they hate feeling controlled by me. This is what they’re doing. This is in [00:09:00] response to me.
I must be controlling person. I need to stop being so controlling in this way. That’s just another example. See your role in the matter and if it is something that you absolutely need to take on yourself, you do that and do not proceed to step five. But let’s say, I suppose that, you know. I really do see that this is a reasonable request.
I do think it’s reasonable in this example that the shirt is picked up off the floor. Well, let’s proceed to step five and
step 5
Dan (2): Step five is this. You invite your spouse to listen. It’s like, Hey, can we talk about something? Please? It’s really bothering me. uh, can we have a conversation about something? You invite.
It’s just an invitation. And they may, uh, refuse your invitation, but it’s never a demand. It’s like you sit down here and listen to me, complain to you. That will never go well. Invite, invite your spouse to listen. And you wanna be really clear about it. Right. Okay. Now that [00:10:00] you’ve invited them, they’re sitting down with you, you’re calmed down, right?
We’re calm the heck down. We’re not overly reactive. We know what our facts are from our meanings of it.
step 6
Dan (2): This is where you explain the facts and you always start with the facts from step three, and you just, just the facts and you leave out your interpretation. This could be like, “Hey, yesterday your shirt was left out.
I saw it on the floor.” Right, just the facts.
step 7
Dan (2): And then step seven is you invite your spouse to give you any updates on the facts or share additional details about the facts.
Remember the story I told you about the man that pushed grandma on the sidewalk, but it was an after I told you that an oncoming car was about to hit her and he saved her life.
Do you see how additional facts sometimes change our mind about things? Well, this is where you invite your spouse. Hey, I’ve noticed that you left your shirt on the floor. Is there a reason why you did this [00:11:00] or am I missing something here? You invite them. You invite them, and your job is to listen.
They might say, oh, I didn’t get that shirt out. Our son Johnny got the shirt out and he must have left it on the floor. If you heard that, that changes things. It changes your meaning, your interpretation of things, right? Invite your spouse to add more facts. The more facts, the more light, the more knowledge and truth you can bring to the table where you’re both looking at the whole story, the better you’re gonna able to have difficult conversations.
Okay? Let’s say you do that and they share those things and you’re ready to proceed to the next step.
step 8
Dan (2): Step number eight, it is share your interpretation of facts. This is where you say, I make all of this to mean blank. Or, you know, I’m afraid this means blank for our relationship.
Or, this is hard for me because I really value blank and I don’t feel understood.
Or you can say something like, I feel like this means you [00:12:00] don’t care about blank, or you’re not invested in blank In our marriage, and whenever you say there’s a kindness, this sounds harsh, so it could be harsh. Don’t be harsh. Always couched in kindness. Kindness is the rule in our marriage. Always put in kindness, but you’re using eye language too, right?
I make this mean. This is how I interpret this. This is what it’s meaning for me.
step 9
Dan (2): After you say that, step nine, right? You’re gonna state what you want instead. This is where you’re gonna bring more clarity to the marriage by bringing your best you. This is like what I really care about is a cleaner house.
I really want a clean bedroom. I want to come home and feel like, you know, this is a place I can relax in whatever it is this is about. This is about your higher values, or it might be, I want to be in a relationship where I can really trust you with things and when
I see you consistently. Doing things only for a short time and then returning back to old habits.
I just have a really [00:13:00] difficult time feeling like I can trust in this relationship, whatever it is, right?
step 10
Dan (2): And Step number 10, this is the last step. You’re gonna invite collaboration, and this means sometimes stopping and listening and listen, listen, listen and listen some more and see what your spouse has to say.
But again, it’s about collaborating. How can we solve this together? Can we collaborate, please? This is where you externalize the problem. Instead of taking it personally, you externalize it. The problem’s over there, it’s like on the other side of the table. You and your spouse are sitting together on this side of the table, problem’s over there.
How can we collaborate to solve the problem over there? That’s the energy and spirit in which you address these things. All right? Those are the 10 steps. Let me guide you through, some examples that might be helpful for you and we’ll put this all into practice. Okay, let’s give, one scenario. Uh, you want a more intimate relationship.
You talked a week ago about going to bed earlier, so that, you have time to talk and connect before falling [00:14:00] asleep. But you notice your husband is staying up playing his video games or watching sports or reading the news on his phone, or scrolling a YouTube or Instagram or whatever he does instead of coming to bed earlier, like you talked about.
So here you are, you’re in bed. You’re very willing and waiting, but he’s late again, you wonder if he really wants a closer, intimate relationship with you. You wonder if he is avoiding you. Okay? Let’s use a 10 step framework to help you guide through this. Remember what? Step one, calm the heck down. Never try to engage in the problem solving conversation.
When you’re emotionally reactive, can you find your center? Can you turn off the reaction. And be grounded within yourself. And this might take some time, this might take a few minutes. This might mean you have a good night’s sleep and then you address it the next day.
Whatever it is, calm the heck down if you want to have an effective conversation. Step two, choose a specific scenario don’t be [00:15:00] general about it. Number three, separate facts from meanings. This is where you might, in your mind, go through, okay. At two weeks ago, on Wednesday night, we talked about, you know, coming to bed sooner.
Now that it’s been two weeks, I’ve been keeping track. It’s only happened once. The other nights, I’m in bed by 10, but you’re in bed by 1130. We’re not connecting. And then your interpretation of those, I make it mean this thing, right? And try to see your role in this. This is where you take a really hard look at yourself.
What is it? The way I am doing that makes this hard. Is it, for example, is my spouse avoiding me because maybe he sees me as controlling, or maybe my spouse avoids me because, he, doesn’t find our intimate interactions or talk time before bed. Very rewarding. Or maybe I’m too harsh on him. Maybe I just complain.
I, whatever it is. I don’t know what it is. You’ll know what it is, but you need to take yourself on here and see your role. And [00:16:00] let’s say you do that and you still think, no, there’s more to be discussed here. Then we’re gonna move on to step five. This is where we invite our spouse to listen. Hey, husband or wife, can we please talk for a bit?
can I invite you to listen to something? I have a, I have a problem I wanna solve with you. All right. Then step six, you’re gonna state the facts. Step seven, you’re gonna invite your spouse to update you on any facts that you’re missing so you have a clearer picture.
So you’re both just talking facts. Number eight. You’re going to take the meaning of those things. It’s like when you come to bed late, after we’ve said we wanna have more time together in the evening, I make it mean you’re not invested in our relationship. Like I hope to step nine, say what you want instead.
In this case, it’ll be, what I would really like is an intimate relationship with you. I want to be really close to you. I wanna feel like I’m your number one that you choose me over even a video [00:17:00] game. I really want to be known as your number one choice. I want a kind of relationship where we’re close, we’re friends, and we’re enjoy spending time together.
And, that’s what I really want to get. And step 10, invite collaboration. Do you see this any differently? Tell me what I’m missing. How can we work together to have a more intimate relationship? Do you value that? And then listen, listen, listen, listen. Listen. Okay.
Your challenge is just pick one specific recent scenario in your relationship that’s dividing you and not bringing you together. I want you to calm the heck down and follow the 10 step framework from above, and I want you to commit to the process and have a effective conversation, solve a problem. And it might not resolve right away, but you can practice and repeat this process over and over again until you get a little bit more clarity and get a little bit better, more intimate in your relationship over [00:18:00] time.
I promise you that as you follow this 10 step framework, you’ll feel more empowered than ever. You’ll be able to invite your spouse with more confidence into more intimate marriage with you. And even after all those invitations with all the confidence, they still don’t accept, at least now you have a lot more clarity and you’ve become a much stronger person as a result.
In conclusion, intimate marriages are not about exotic vacations or having consistently hot sex or never having any conflict. The reality is every marriage is gonna have conflict. This
conflict, by the way, I believe, is an invitation for you to grow closer together as a couple.
If you have found any of this helpful, I invite you to, take the next step with me. And the next step is I can help you implement all of these skills
Through the Get Your Marriage On Program. You’ll find this all on my website at Get Your Marriage on.com, where it’s a mix of private [00:19:00] and group coaching. It’s a in-depth 13 hour course plus a community all designed to rally around and help you build a more intimate relationship.
Dan (2): All right, my friends,
Dan: go get your marriage on. .
