Has sex started to feel more like a responsibility than something you actually look forward to?
Somewhere along the way, many couples stop playing together. Sex becomes serious, intimacy feels like work, and differences in desire create pressure instead of connection.
In this episode, Dan sits down with returning guest and relationship coach Tammy Camp to talk about building an adult playground in your marriage—a place where both spouses feel free to explore, laugh, and enjoy each other.
You’ll discover why play matters in a healthy sexual relationship, how to bring back the fun when you have different desires, and simple ways to make intimacy feel less like an obligation and more like an invitation.
Because great intimacy isn’t just about what you do together. It’s about how you feel together.
Register for one of our retreat options: Virtual Retreat or In-Person Retreat
Guest: Tammy Camp
Tammy Camp is a marriage, relationship, and intimacy coach who helps couples and individuals build deeper connection, greater honesty, and more playful, fulfilling relationships. Married to her best friend, Jake, for 26 years, Tammy brings both personal experience and a faith-centered perspective to her work. She believes great marriages aren’t about perfection, but about continually choosing each other, embracing growth, and creating more friendship, intimacy, and joy along the way.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Tammy: [00:00:00] So play is for kids, s*x is serious, and intimacy is work is a lot of times what our brain as adults thinks that we need to live in
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Get Your Marriage On podcast. I’m your host, Dan Purcell, and I gotta say, we just got off the ship from our Get Your Marriage On cruise. It was our first ever cruise we did. I sailed with 23 other couples for a week, and it was such a great, positive experience. We called it the Intimacy Cruise, a little bit of play on words there, as we spelled [00:01:00] intimacy with S-E-A at the end.
Dan: What was most inspiring for me is to see couples have breakthroughs, see this group of strangers, and instantly become fast friends, all united in wanting to improve intimacy in our marriages. And we had a blast. We had a boudoir photographer sailing with us, who took photos for the women, that wanted it.
We had sessions where we taught classes on how to improve intimacy in marriage, uh, using a body, heart, mind, and spirit framework, and excursions together, and dinner time together, and shows together. We just had a great, positive experience. I’m on a high from that. And, uh, we have our next retreat we’re doing.
It’s not at sea, it’s on land. It’s in April of twenty twenty-seven , and I hope you’ll join us, this podcast episode today is one of the things we talk about at our retreats. And it is this idea of s*x as [00:02:00] play. I think too many of us adults, we think play is for kids. We kinda outgrow that.
And then we look at s*x as being, you know, serious, and intimacy taking work. I hear a couple saying, “Oh, I need to work on this, work on that,” in our s*xual relationship. And it is true, we have things to work on, but it’s very different when you approach it from a frame of play. So my guest today is Tammy Camp.
She coaches with me in my program at Get Your Marriage On. . She also co-teaches with me at our retreats. So you’re gonna, love listening from her, and I, as we talk about today, this concept of, s*x is adult play.
Now, one thing that really stood out to me in this episode as we talked is Tammy at first had a hard time understanding play, uh, even play in general, and let alone play in the bedroom.
How do you play? And so we unpack that together as she shares her experience. And I invite you, as you [00:03:00] listen, to think about how playful are your intimate moments, and, I encourage you to make them more playful
Before we get into the episode, my wife Emily and I, are teaching a live class November six and seven all about t*ntric s*x.
T*ntric, if you recall, is a slow s*x process, and we’re doing it in a virtual getaway format where you’ll be joining us Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday night. We encourage you to get your own hotel room or, uh, Airbnb, and you can join us live or just catch the recordings and pick another weekend within 90 days where you can do it yourself.
But join us for this live teaching experience where we’re going to guide you through the practice of a d- a different way of playing together, a different way of making s*x more mindful and deeply connecting. In fact, we call it this is the difference between just having s*x and making love. So it’s about making love.
It’s [00:04:00] like a making love retreat. All those details are on our website, getyourmarriageon.com. Click Events, and you’ll see that there
Tammy, welcome back to the Get Your Marriage On podcast. How are you today?
Tammy: I’m doing so good. Glad
to be here
Dan: You’re a frequent guest on Get Your Marriage On. I get to talk to you, weekly, sometimes even daily, as we work together as coaches in our next level program, and I love working with the couples that we work with together.
And so we know each other really well. And, you are very active in our, retreats that we put on. You’re one of the facilitators, and you teach alongside with me. And, uh, a little bit of a selfish thing for me, I, I guess, maybe not selfish, but I’ve done retreats nine times. And every time, I think I gain the most out of all the couples there.
I walk away with the most insight and growth in my own marriage. And, this [00:05:00] last time, the thing that impressed me the most from our retreat was the message that you gave Saturday morning on the value of play, because I needed to hear that, and I think our listeners will benefit so much from this conversation we’re about to have.
Dan (2): So Tammy, why are you so drawn to this idea of play, and why are you so passionate about teaching this to couples?
Tammy: Yeah, because I think that one thing that I’ve learned in my relationship for sure is I didn’t know how to play. It was not something that, um, I, I knew or understood or thought was important in relationships. And man, over the last several years as I’ve worked on, um, myself and worked on intimacy and worked with Jake on our relationship, the thing that I have really come to know is that play is one of the most important things that we can do in relationships
Dan (2): Mm-hmm. Yeah. There’s a great quote, and it’s misattributed to lots of people, including Charles Dickens, that says You’ll learn far [00:06:00] more in one hour of play with a person than an hour of conversation.”
Tammy: Ah,
yes. I love that
Dan (2): play is so important. Uh, So you said you’ve struggled with play.
when’s the moment you realized, “Oh, I need to learn how to play”?
Tammy: so, we’ve talked about this before on your podcast, but one of the most pivotal things in our relationship, pivotal moments, is that Jake and I actually were guests at, one of your retreats. And I remember sitting in a similar type course while I was there, and we were talking about this idea of play, and my mind was just blown.
I couldn’t even fathom or even think about the idea of what this meant to play. It didn’t make sense because to me it was, it was duty, it was obligation, it was, managing somebody else or just trying to get something done, right? Like, it was just to fill a need of somebody else. And so when, you know, somebody is telling me that I should play, I, I couldn’t [00:07:00] even.
I couldn’t even. And so that’s… It’s funny that that was the one question probably I had that was really on my mind that my mind could just not wrap around is, , I don’t know how to do that. So I actually went up to one of the coaches and I just said, “I, I have one question, that I need to ask you.”
And I said, um, “How do you play?” And I, I think that’s exactly how I said it, and she just looked at me, and she’s just like, “You just do it.”
And that was kind of a weird response for
me to get in that moment ’cause I was like, “Wait, that didn’t answer my question at all.” But it gave my brain enough space to really open up to the idea of like, okay, what is just doing it mean?
And so
this has sent me on a journey, you know, from becoming a coach, being very passionate about this, to be like, yes, we just need to learn how to do it. We need to learn how to own it for ourselves, and we need to learn how to step into play however that means for [00:08:00] us individually, which also creates a fun playground and a, a, a scape for us as a couple as well.
Dan (2): Mm-hmm. That’s very good. So, why is play difficult for people?
Tammy: Yeah. So often as I’ve kind of done a lot of this, one thing that I have determined is this: that as we become adults, we want to be adults, right? Our entire childhood we like wait for the opportunity to be adult.
And then when we get there, for some reason, often, especially in the idea of like s*x and, um, intimacy, we often decide that play is no longer for adults, it’s for kids.
Like, if we’re gonna be adults, play is not for us
anymore, and so we often take that out. Um, it just doesn’t seem very mature of us, right? To be able to play or to bring those aspects in. and through this we kind of decide that desires and s*x is serious.
It’s just, [00:09:00] like I said before, to get things done. Um, and then intimacy often becomes a lot of work because we don’t understand each other. It is just something, one more thing that we have to do, uh, one more thing that we don’t, that our spouse needs and that we have to kind of step towards and, a- and that’s really hard. So play is for kids, s*x is serious, and intimacy is work is a lot of times what our brain as adults thinks that we need to live in
Dan (2): I love that. Play is for kids, desire or s*x is serious, and intimacy feels like work.
Tammy: Ja
Dan (2): Yeah, I can relate to seasons of my marriage where that felt, feels that way, and I think a lot of people feel that way too
Tammy: Yeah, yeah. And I think one thing that’s kind of, you know, fun and we’ll talk about today is just the idea of like what if the couples that actually, , feel the most connected are the ones that have learned how to play again
Dan (2): Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Well, look forward to talking about that more.
Tammy: Yes.
Dan (2): [00:10:00] So tell me more about, like, play is for kids. Let’s, let’s dive into that a little bit better
Tammy: Yeah. I think that, play we often disregard. You know? Like, we, we’ll learn how to do things, as far as playfulness. We, we still go hiking. We’ll still go, you know, play golf. We’ll still go running. We’ll do lots of these things that we think, are play. But for some reason, in our relationships, often, play becomes too much work, or we think.
Or maybe just the idea of like, because of desire differences in our relationship, play seems unattainable. because of the idea of play often gets squashed in, my spouse knows exactly what they need, and exactly what they want. And so it becomes one-sided often in relationships, where one person has lots of fun ideas, maybe, of ideas of play, and the other person is just like, doing it because. And so I think that that kind of squashes both aspects of play. One person is like overbearing, [00:11:00] kind of pursuing that, “I have lots of ideas to play,” but it comes across more as pressure, and so no longer play. And the other one feels so much pressure, they’re withdrawing from play. And so I think that that’s a good way for us to see it, that we push it out ourselves, the idea of being playful from these dynamics we create of our own accord in our relationships
Dan (2): Hmm. That’s true. And then I think of adults who are really good at play. Like, I admire my younger brother. Uh, we’re pretty close. He’s just got this gift of being playful. And nothing inappropriate or, like, irresponsible, but he can really play with his kids and really play with his wife, and he’s great at helping, like, lightening the mood.
People laugh around him. He’s, he’s got that gift of, like, really learning how to, like, let go and play, where I tend to be more on the, uh, too serious side sometimes. That’s a good example for me.
Tammy: Yes. Yeah, yeah
Dan (2): And I remember [00:12:00] when, Emily and I restarted, uh, I call it our s*xual renaissance. This is about 13 years into our marriage when we realized s*x was actually a good thing for us.
Uh, just realizing like, “Whoa, there’s actually a lot of room to get really creative in s*x.” It’s not just 10 minutes in the missionary position in the dark and you’re done. It’s actually, there’s so much playfulness that can be involved, and, it somehow tapped into this creative side of me that, I can now unleash into the bedroom, and it just made our intimate moments just so much more playful and something we could look forward to.
And that’s, I think, what we’re talking about here, kind of getting back to this… We all have creative instincts. had them as a child. Maybe we suppress them as we become an adult.
Tammy: Yeah
Dan (2): out again and let’s see what kind of play we like to gravitate to as a kid and, like, now do it in, in our bedroom, ’cause s*x is a place for adults to play.
Not… It’s not just about being [00:13:00] serious.
Tammy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that’s, you know, one of my favorite things to, to ask when I, talk about the adult playground is the idea of like, what did you like to do on the playground?
What did you like to do in recess? And,
and, uh, Dan, I’ll share my, uh, my thoughts, but what would you have to say? What did you love
Dan (2): Yeah. My best memories in my elementary school days were like tag, like, uh, the bars, like the pull-up bars, learning how to like swing your legs up over and like doing like a flip off of them. And, uh, Pogs were really big.
Tammy: Okay.
Dan (2): lived in Hawaii at the time, and that’s where Pogs originated, and so I had a massive Pog collection, and we played Pogs all the time, and then it turned into Chinese jumping jacks.
And,
Tammy: Ühüm
Dan (2): but yeah, a lot of this, uh, almost carefree just, just enjoying people and, and having fun. And being– It’s being embodied too. There’s something about running and climbing that’s just, it’s essential
Tammy: Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Yeah. Yeah, it’s so free. Like, I think about going out to recess, and it just was like you could feel the air. You could, you know, smell it. You, like, had freedom finally from the classroom. I just remember, a lot of adventure, right? A lot of, imagination was in my play growing up, that I loved to imagine that we were doing something. one thing that I’ve learned that I really love to do is also plan. And so that is something, that I have very much on my mind as I, figure out what play looks like for me in my relationship, is taking some of these concepts that define me as play from growing up and seeing what it looks like for me to push them into, my adult playground, with my spouse.
yeah. And just kind of a- another question for you, Dan, is, like, when you think of play, how would you define it
Dan (2): Being creative, kind of letting your hair down.
Tammy: Áh
Dan (2): me, it’s being a little on… My goofy side comes
Tammy: Okay. Yes
Dan (2): and, a lot of laughter I think [00:15:00] about. And, just feeling really in the moment.
Tammy: Mm.
Yeah
Dan (2): I’m not saying without consequence, but It feels a little, um, just free.
Just a little un- more untethered
Tammy: Yeah, yeah. And I love that. And, like, just think of, and, and anybody that is listening, this idea of, like, those are beautiful words. Those are so fun. They’re so playful, and it sounds like exactly what we want in our bedrooms, right? And so just this idea of, like, that’s where we want to move to. So as you’re listening to this podcast, anybody that is, ask yourself that question, right? When I think of play, I think of… And what comes up for you, and is that in your relationship right now? And that’s a very powerful thing for you or any of us to just realize, is that there or not? And if it’s not there, how do we get there?
Dan (2): Yep. That’s good. That’s good. I can almost hear the objection starting. “Yeah, but– Yeah, but Tammy. Yeah, but Tammy, my spouse [00:16:00] isn’t interested in playing with me.”
Tammy: Ah.
Dan (2): “Yeah, but Tammy,
Tammy: Ah.
Dan (2): this health problem,” or, “Yeah, but
Tammy: Ühüm,
ühüm my younger years. Now I’ve put on weight, and I don’t look as pretty.” How do we address that?
Yeah. We, we get to decide how we show up and play regardless of our size, our weight, our, thoughts, our all of this going on. that’s the most powerful thing in the bedroom is this is a team sport, right? One of the, the things that we really love to do, I would say most of the people that I talk to about play is they’re generally with somebody else. We’re not often with ourselves when we play, and so just, learning how to take your concepts of play for whoever you are n- right now, and then also bringing them in with your spouse’s concepts of play and creating a super fun playground where we can get to be ourselves now in the moment, um, and talk about them, that we can discuss these aspects of play, that we can find what works for both of us.[00:17:00]
No playground is fun if you’re doing it by yourself, right? If you’re going down the slide over and over again by yourself and, the person that you invited to come play with is like, ” I hate slides,” not fun, right? And so sometimes if you are doing the, “Yeah, but Tammy,” then it’s talking about, like, well, maybe what would it look like for if we just, like, took out the slide for a minute
and brought in something that is playful for both of you, right?
It’s just…
Dan (2): or like the swing, the s*x swing.
Tammy: Yes. Let’s
put in a swing. Let’s put in, you know, whatever it may be. Uh, i- if, if both of us, you know, when, when we think of play, if both of us think about imagination, wow, like, what could that open up the possibilities in our relationship if we can step towards that? Or even if one of us has the idea of imagination, what is it like to be a really good friend and come along along their imagination journey? Like, sometimes we did things that our friend says, [00:18:00] “Let’s play kickball,” and you’re just like, “Oh, I don’t know about kickball,” but you still went and played it, and generally you had a good time when you were open to the idea that you’re with your friend.
And so what if that could be really fun when you’re with your friend?
Dan (2): Yeah, I like that. That’s a great reframe.
Tammy: Mm-hmm.
Dan (2): So for a lot of adults, when they think of s*xual desire, it’s very serious. Very
Tammy: Ja. Ja
Dan (2): and there’s been seasons in my own marriage where s*x was very serious.
Tammy: Mm-hmm. S- seriously?
Dan (2): serious, right? Like, uh, I’ve heard, uh, scenarios on this podcast before, like, being very goal-oriented or, like, outcome-oriented, like, right? Like, “No, we must have s*x so many times a week or a month,” or, “We must have an org@sm,” or whatever. Like, those… All of a sudden, s*xual desire becomes a very serious matter.
Tammy: Exactly.
Yeah. s*x and desires, they do become very [00:19:00] serious because I, I think for one, they’re not understood. And that is part of the reason why it comes, becomes very serious is because all of a sudden we have this spouse. I mean, that- that’s one of the hardest things in relationship is there’s two of us, right?
And it becomes very serious when it, it, it becomes more like a task to be done,
a problem to be solved, a no-fun concept that we’re just, somebody needs, one of the two of us needs. and that’s serious work. There’s no laughter.
There’s no play. it’s just a lot of heavy energy for sure.
And yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. That is when s*x becomes a thing. S*x does not become fun. S*x does not become exploratory. S*x does not become, joy or laughter. It becomes, busy
and, serious and, let’s just get this done, So that we can calm down both of us out of our anxious desire. So I think that’s another way to think about it is s*x is often [00:20:00] very, very anxious. And nobody can play and be anxious at the same time. It
just does not
Dan (2): doesn’t mix very well, does
Tammy: No, it doesn’t. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so here’s the other, the next question for you to think about, Dan, is like when you think of desires or s*x, what are the first three things that maybe pop off your tongue when you think about that?
Dan (2): Oh, I think of the joy of being desired and pursued.
Tammy: Ühüm.
Dan (2): like just how validating that feels.
Tammy: Mhm
Dan (2): I think of, the other direction, too, just, like, really wanting my wife and just really liking her presence and her beauty and how it just nourishes my soul when we’re together.
Tammy: Ühüm.
Dan (2): I think of desires. I think of, frankly, I think of some of my fantasies that are, that are fun they’re just that.
They’re just fantasies.
Tammy: Ah, [00:21:00] okay.
Dan (2): A lot of them, if they were done in real life, would not be Like, here’s an example of a non-s*xual fantasy I have is owning a private jet that’s big enough that I have a large family. It’s like a Saturday afternoon. We’re like, “All right, kids, hop in the plane.
We’re gonna go to, I don’t know, Kansas City for some barbecue for dinner, and then we’ll fly home and go to bed.” Like, it sounds so, like, amazing, right?
Tammy: Yes
Dan (2): Um, and I like to fantasize about that. But the reality is, like, owning a plane, all the expense, all the maintenance, either hiring a pilot or learning how to fly and all the hours and time it would take to do that and keeping up on certifications and the risks and dangers and everything, then it’s no longer fun anymore.
So s- it, like, stays in the fantasy world for me, and then it is fun. So sometimes desire can be in that more make-believe realm, and that’s where it can stay when it’s playful. Instead of [00:22:00] stepping outside that, now it feels serious
Tammy: Yes, exactly. Yeah, if it becomes too much about tasks or this one thing will fix it, right? If I get the jet, then it will fix it. If we go to Kansas City, everything will be great. Um, these are the things that, that takes play out of s*x.
Um, and, so one of the things to bring play back into s*x and desires is the idea of 100% first understanding it, and a lot of couples in their relationships do not des- do not, boop, um, understand their desires, right? Uh, they don’t, and it’s, it’s, it’s one of the hardest things to make s*x not serious is, uncovering the idea of, like, either one of us can learn what it looks like for us to have our own desires in our relationship and that they are different than our spouse.
It’s a beautiful thing to [00:23:00] understand, and one of the most important steps to bring play into s*x and play into your desires is to understand that. It’s okay I’m different than my spouse. It is okay that they may be more spontaneous. It’s okay that I may be more responsive, and that’s a beautiful way to play, that we can bring in both of these and enter into that realm of imagination, of, of play, of openness, of vulnerability and honesty in our relationships, of understanding we’re gonna have different desires. We’re gonna respond differently to s*x, and that’s a beautiful thing once understood.
Dan (2): Do you think there’s some people that have kind of, as they’ve matured a little, conditioned themselves to think it’s unvirtuous to desire things? It’s more virtuous to be wantless, needless, cause if I desire things, then I set myself up for disappointment, or if I desire things, I’m imposing on other people, so it’s better just to kinda be in the [00:24:00] shadows and do what other people want?
Tammy: Oh, 100%. Yeah, and that’s… I, I say that that often, not always, but often finds- falls more on that responsive desire, that they become just, uh, more of, like, “I don’t, I don’t have any desires. Uh, I don’t have anything that I really want.” but yet I always say, “I’m calling your bluff,” because almost everybody in any relationship has desires.
It’s learning how to voice them again, learning how to bring them out, learning how to have the vulnerability and safety to be able to share them. Does not mean that they will come to pass, right? Does not mean that they might necessarily happen, but all of us do. All of us have things that we truly desire, that truly make us feel loved, accepted, cherished, and we, we often suppress them. And when we can learn to bring them back up and have them be open, it’s playful. It is more, like, cherishing. It is more out of choice. And, and so, yes, we [00:25:00] often disregard them, but They’re very much there for all of us.
Dan (2): Yeah, I love this. So a moment ago we talked about, you know, play. We think play is for kids, and then we reframed it and said, “No, play is for adults too.”
Tammy: Yeah. Yes.
Dan (2): about s*xual desire is serious. What’s the reframe for that then?
Tammy: Uh, s*x is exploration. s*x is an … exactly. It’s for exploration. It’s for openness. It’s for just seeing, I
think, what we have not been able to see. And, uh, maybe s*x is for vulnerability
as
Dan (2): Yeah. A little less serious then. Yeah.
Tammy: little less serious, a little more laughter.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
‘Cause really, if we can learn how to
I, I mean, I’ll just say this as well, I’ve said it before actually, if we can learn how to laugh while having s*x, that is one of the most powerful things. That’s bringing in play, right? We don’t play, we don’t laugh when we’re not having joy,[00:26:00]
and So I think
that’s one of
Dan (2): me the time you’ve laughed the hardest during s*x
Tammy: Oh, goodness. Now you’re putting me on the spot.
Let me think. Um, I think one of the funniest things is, you know, every once in a while we’ll try to do something, where we’re just like, “Oh, let’s try this new position. This will be fun.” And it’s just not doable, and I think that that’s some of the most comical things when we’re just like, “I don’t know how that is supposed to work,” but it’s just nice that we can play, because forever in our relationship we couldn’t laugh about those things.
It was just
like-
Dan (2): I love that example ’cause you’re not being serious. Like, right? It doesn’t have to be
Tammy: Yes. Yep, the seriousness is gone. It is just like, “Well, that’s for somebody else and their
partner,” because that is definitely not for us. And, and so I think it’s just, you know, there’s an example for sure. I don’t know if that’s the, you know, when we’ve laughed the hardest, but that is one that I just think of
for That’s so good
Mm-hmm
Dan (2): All right. what questions [00:27:00] would you ask me about intimacy then? ‘Cause I think most people when they think of intimacy, they think about its, its work
Tammy: Mm, yes. And, and so this is, you know, one of the first questions I always ask is when you think of intimacy, what do you think of, and what’s the first few words that come up for you?
Dan (2): Hmm. Good question. So I think of closeness, I think of vulnerability, which we talked about a bit. There’s times when intimacy feels more like work because, I guess this is when I’m more– on my more unhealthy approach is, like a calculated chess game of mental chess, right? It’s like, well, I’m gonna reveal this about myself ’cause I want her to reveal this part about herself,
Tammy: Ah.
Dan (2): and this idea of like reciprocation.
Like, if I do this, then, I’m obligating her to open up about that ’cause I really wanna get her to agree with me on this other thing, and I’m like thinking three steps ahead. And, so intimacy then is about like, getting [00:28:00] my spouse to reveal something or agree with me on something, and that does definitely feel like work.
Tammy: Yeah,
Dan (2): A more healthier way for me is, just be more, uh, which I call self-validated in my intimacy. it’s just me pulling back the curtain and just, just exposing more of my heart and mind and body. It’s like, “This is who I am. I want you to know this,” regardless of how they accept it or not. that feels
More scary, but less work.
Tammy: Yes. It, and there’s that vulnerability, because it is often terrifying to be intimate in a relationship because it is the most vulnerable thing. Um, you know, s*x and desires, s*x is an act. Intimacy is this huge, ginormous piece of our relationship, that involves everything. It, it involves the spiritual side of us, it involves the emotional side of us.
It involves the physical side of us. It is all of these aspects, so it is this huge piece of our relationship with [00:29:00] pieces of s*x and desire woven into that, right? And so it is very encompassing of a very healthy relationship when we can define intimacy and we can vulnerably step towards it and see that there’s more aspects to it than just making out or having s*x. Intimacy is so much bigger than that for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan (2): Love that. So good questions. Any other questions you ask about intimacy then?
Tammy: yeah, when I think about our intimate connection, I feel what? How would you answer that
Dan (2): I feel blessed. I feel, safe. I feel, like I have someone on my team
Tammy: Ühüm, Ühüm,
Dan (2): I feel, grateful that somebody knows me and that I can be just myself around them, and they can be their self around me
Tammy: Yeah. Yeah. And some cool things that I’ll point out is there was some play aspects in there. Now, you didn’t use the word play because I think [00:30:00] generally the word intimacy softens us, and I think that that’s interesting, um, that you said very soft words when you were talking about intimacy. Uh, s*x and desire kind of bring a little bit more of the, you know, good words, but just more of this, like, energy, like a fuller energy, and this intimacy brings a softness, yet there’s still play in it.
And I’ll just kind of point out some of the things that play is it says you want to be with a friend, and that’s one of the things that we talked about when we were talking about play, is that we often want to be with somebody when we’re playing. Um, you talked about just feeling like yourself and being fully, you know, chosen in that, and that’s something we want, right?
When we’re playing, we want our best friend alongside of us. We want to be cherished and loved and, accepted in that, and there’s play. There’s play that we’re bringing into intimacy, um, in that and, uh, and that’s powerful when we can see how we’re bringing play into all these different aspects of our relationship.
Dan (2): Oh, so good. So good. [00:31:00] Great. ,
Tammy, I love this conversation. Play is for adults. Desire expands us. It helps us explore. Intimacy brings the, the base, the softness, the friendship aspect. These are all very important parts of play and that having this playful mindset towards s*x. Now, how do we incorporate all these principles into building a playground with our spouse?
Tammy: Yeah, and so the one thing that as you think about and ponder on these questions is just really think about, where do I have play? Where do I see play in all of those pieces? And what does it look like for me to play? We talked about that at the beginning, but how do you bring those concepts and ideas into your relationship? just things that you loved to do when you were growing up, how can you bring them playfully into your bedroom
I’ll give you a few examples, to kind of get you started I did love to use my imagination, like I talked about growing up, and so it’s been fun for me [00:32:00] to, uh, create fun dates for Jake and I where I can use my imagination and build that together.
Now, as a responsive desire spouse, I still get to, you know, come in and just be like, “I have a fun date planned for us.” And I’ve, you know, brought in these concepts. I also learned growing up that I love to plan things for people, which means that I love to be the organizer of play. So often, you know, I would get all the things ready for us to play Barbies, get them all dressed, get them all ready, and that was my favorite part to do.
Not necessarily do the play as much as the, you know, the rest. And so as I kind of stepped in towards what does it look like for me to play, it was just like, plan the party, right? Get it ready. And so it was things like, oh, let’s play Clue, for example, and make it a s*xy Clue. And how can we bring this game, and I can plan it of my own accord, bring the, my ideas of fun and play into the [00:33:00] bedroom and plan a fun game of Clue of like when we solve a clue, then maybe an item of clothing comes off. You know, all of these concepts are what I was able to do to own play and bring them into my relationship, and Jake has never had a problem with any fun play idea that I brought in because there was room for him as well. It was an invitation to him of like, “Let’s step into this together.” And we were able to laugh and have fun and, and be joyful, not, not the idea of like, “You will come along on my slide even though you hate slides.”
And, and so that’s the difference right there of, of being open to the fact of, “I love this.
Will my spouse also love this?”
Dan (2): I like that. It’s more of an invitation. “Come play with me.” And that’s so much, less threatening than, “And you will like it and pretend you do even if you don’t,” right?
Tammy: You liked it once. That’s another thing to be careful of, too. Just because maybe there’s something in the bedroom that was once [00:34:00] liked does not mean that it needs to be liked anymore. Sometimes we just like to, you know, think about even, Dan, as you were explaining what you like to do on the playground, it wasn’t one thing all the time,
right?
It was like sometimes I liked to do this, and then other times I like to swing on the monkey bars and figure out how to flip over. All of those aspects are, like, they’re changing, they’re moving. And, and that’s part of playing in the bedroom or in our adult playground, is being able to move and change and shift and be open to newness. For sure
Dan (2): And as you talk, I keep thinking about, maybe how most men might think. I guess that masculine energy is very much about do.
Tammy: Ühüm
Dan (2): task, it’s about sequence, it’s about direction. And so my mind goes to, “Okay, do, do, do. I wanna do this, do this, do this, do this, do this.”
And I guess there’s nothing wrong with that. But,
Tammy: Mhm
Dan (2): one reframe that’s helped me is instead I try to start with the end in mind. How do I want to feel, as a result of this experience? [00:35:00] And then the actual to-dos become secondary ’cause it’s more focused on the feeling I want.
Tammy: Yes
Dan (2): um, I heard a, a couple once say they– he just really wanted a threesome , which is against my morals, right? It’s against, what a lot of people really do. But for some reason, just that idea really appealed to him, just really wanting that. And, wife was not okay with that idea.
And, there’s nothing wrong with having desires and fantasies. It’s just how you’re gonna act on them. But it’s important not to get so fixated on, on the what. And what really helped him through it is, well, what’s the feeling you want because of that threesome? Like, often our desires are, are not about the thing.
It’s, it’s the result. It’s what we want to be feeling. And, once he was able to really dial that down, then the actual method of how to get there, [00:36:00] like this only one path, became less, important. Now he and his wife could get a little more creative in things that were within their boundaries of how to like kinda create that kind of an experience, that, uh, feeling they both wanted, that he wanted, that were still within their boundaries.
So that’s how you can use creativity and play, not take it so seriously, I think. And, just think with that end in mind. What’s the feeling I want in the end? For me, the feeling I want when I’m with my wife, I wanna feel free, I wanna feel playful, I wanna feel young, I wanna feel untethered, like we talked about.
And so the actual positions we use or whatever become secondary because… I mean, I mean, these are still important to talk about, but, you start with the end in mind, like what do we wanna create? Not start with the list of to-dos per se.
Tammy: Yes, exactly. That’s intimacy. So I love, because, you know, intimacy is choice. [00:37:00] It is the end in mind. It is feelings. It’s very feelings-based, intimacy, um, with play included, right? And, so I love that you explained that and talked about it because often we’re so focused on acts themselves, like specific things that we’ll do in our relationship.
If you are doing that, if you’re so focused on one thing that you really hope will happen in your relationship, you’ve built your own playground. You really have. That does not mean that you can share that you would love to do that at some point. But if it’s not a co-created playground for you and your spouse, intimacy will not be there.
It will not be free. It will not be play. And, and that’s our goal is to bring all of those things into one of feeling very connected. And, and so this is why we have to build our playground together. We have to be open to, you know, even if I really, really want that thing, it’s not gonna be connecting. It is going to be s- work energy. It’s, it’s not gonna be where we want. We want that choice. [00:38:00] We want that freedom. And, and that’s where a beautiful playground comes up. Even if you think, “This is the best beautiful roller coaster in the whole world,” if your spouse won’t ride it with you, it’s not a good roller coaster. And so sometimes demolish the roller coaster and, and bring back the kiddie ride
and, and try that. And, and I’m not saying be vanilla in your relationship, but have a playground out of choice will be much more magical than anything huge you think needs to happen. and that’s for either spouse, either way, of just stepping into it with, “This is a, this is a joint playground.
I wanna be there with my best friend.”
Dan (2): Mm-hmm. That’s good. That’s good. All right. As we conclude, let’s give our listeners a few resources that they can add to their playground. Now, I know you’ve created these, s*xy escape rooms. Those are really fun. I’ll link, I’ll have a link to that in the show notes. can you talk briefly about that and m- maybe one or two more resources, and I’ll share o- a few other [00:39:00] resources for people to bring back more play into the
Tammy: Yes. Yeah. So I do have my spicy escape rooms that are just fun in your bedroom, behind your screen, just the two of you, adventures of play. They, they really do really well for the spontaneous and the responsive desire to bring back the emotional connection and the physical connection. So they’re really good ways to just bring back, back that play into your relationship. Um, I always say a resource is pull out any game that you have and figure out how to make it spicy. Uh, use your things that you grew up loving to do and figure out how you can bring that funness and aliveness into your bedroom. I always recommend the Intimately Us app.
I think it is a very important tool for relationships, that there’s just, there’s so many fun, um, ways to play in there. There’s, um, games and resources and knowledge and learning and all of those things that can be such a tool, um, for sure in our [00:40:00] relationships. And one thing that I really think is always fun too is I have dice
that you can kind of roll and plan a date,
and some of the dice even have s*x positions on them as well, which are kind of fun.
So
those are… those can be fun and playful as well. If you’re stuck and don’t know what to do for a date and just need a little bit of that play, those can kind of help you get going as well.
Dan (2): Yeah. Some little like, um, some randomness, some, uh, a little bit of anticipation. Ooh, what’s it gonna be? Definitely drives our interest and makes things fun. Uh-huh. are great resources, Tammy. Thank you very much. And anyone listening that wants coaching with you, wants to learn more about our men’s and women’s groups, about our next level, this is Tammy Camp.
She’s one of our coaches and a excellent, excellent coach that helps many couples. So
Tammy: Thank you.
Yes, I highly recommend that as well. If you need to learn how to play and stepping back into your relationship, coaching is one of the most powerful things that you can [00:41:00] do. It is 100% worth the investment that you will make to put into your relationship. You will see beautiful, wonderful things,
If you do that, so
Dan (2): Great. I love that. That’s a great testimony to end with, coming from someone that had to learn how to do that herself. Exactly. Yes.
That’s so good. Thank you
Tammy: Thank you. You’re welcome
Outro
Dan (2): Hello, friend. Thank you again for listening. I found this episode particularly inspiring. I hope you did too. Now, if there’s anything I can do to help you, whether it’s through private coaching, through our program Next Level, or at our retreats, uh, hope you reach out to me. You can find more details at getyourmarriageon.com.
Now, it’s your turn to go get your marriage on and do it in a playful and fun way
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