This is part two of the podcast we released last Friday (#200). And if you haven’t listened to that one, I highly recommend you pause this episode and go back and listen to #200 first.
These two episodes are continuation of a project that I started a few months ago to better understand what it means for me to cherish my spouse. I shared a tragic story about my wife’s cousin and how that really propelled us to understand what it means to cherish others better. In the process, I’ve sought out mentors to help me understand this concept better.
And you get to hear snippets of the conversations I’ve had with them – you get to be a fly on the wall and learn with me and what it really means to cherish your spouse. And to love them really, really well. Of all the things I talk about on the podcast — sex, orgasms, initiating, foreplay — I think learning how to cherish your spouse whole heartedly takes the cake!
This is the most important. This is the sum of everything that I wish you would get from my podcast.
I hope these two episodes become the most downloaded episodes of the entire podcast. And this is what I want to be known for. I want you to know that to really love and cherish your spouse is at the heart of everything we do, even your sexual interactions (which we talk a lot about on this podcast, right?). It’s about how you cherish your spouse through the language of your sexuality and sharing that with your spouse exclusively.
So today you get a year from three more mentors that I look up to a lot: Tammy Hill, Danielle Savory, and Alex & Kadi Dutton (from EveryLove Intimates). So you get three different perspectives here on the same kind of thing, different stages of life, different worldviews.
And in case you missed it, I talked to Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Alana Martens, (from Kingdom Sexuality), and Tony DiLorenzo (from One Extraordinary Marriage) in part 1.
I hope this is the inspiration you need to make the most of your marriage relationship–make the changes, get the help, and do what you need to do– to find that deep and abiding love, the cherishing that brings the deepest meaning and satisfaction to our lives.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Episode 201: The Art of Cherishing Your Spouse, Part 2
Dan: This is part two of the podcast we released last week, episode number 200. And if you haven’t listened to that one, I highly recommend you pause this episode and go back and listen to the number 201st. Cause this is a continuation of that. project that I started a few months ago to better understand what does it mean for me to cherish my spouse? I share a tragic story about my wife’s cousin and how that really propelled us to understand what it means to cherish others better. I’ve sought out mentors to help me understand this concept better.
And you get to hear snippets of the conversations I’ve had with them. You get to be a fly on the wall and learn with me and what it really means to cherish your spouse. And to love them really, really well. Of all the things I talk about on the podcast, sex orgasms, initiating foreplay. I think learning how to cherish your spouse.
Whole heartedly takes the cake. This is the most important. The sum of everything that I wish you would get from my podcast, this would be it. I hope these two episodes become the most downloaded episodes of the entire podcast. And this is what I want to be known for. I want you to know that. To really love and cherish.
Your spouse is at the heart of everything we do. Even your sexual interactions, which we talk a lot about on this podcast, right? It’s about how do you cherish your spouse through the language of expressing your sexuality and sharing that with your spouse exclusively? So today you get a year from three more mentors that I look up to a lot.
First is, uh, Tammy hill. Second is Daniel savory, and third is Alex and Katie Denton. So you get three different perspectives here on the same kind of thing, different stages of life, different worldviews. My first guest today is Tammy hill. She is licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified sex therapist.
She’s taught at Brigham young university in the past. She is a mentor of mine and it all around. Fantastic woman.
Before we jump into that conversation. I just want you to know about a few announcements. These are important, and they could really help you. So first is. Our in-person retreats. These retreats are fun. They’re upbeat. They’re a great excuse for you and your spouse to get away for a fun weekend. Away from the distractions of everyday stuff. And to really focus on your marriage relationship at a deep level, you get to work with me and my team for four days, three nights in a beautiful setting. And all those details are on my website.
Dan: The dates are October 10th through 13th. And the one in March is March 27th through 30th. So you don’t want to miss that. Next is enrollment is open for program. This is the, get your merge on program, our signature program, where couples can do the work to grow together intimately. And all those details are my website too. And last is September is right around the corner on an invite you to join my wife, Emily and I am making your September, the sexiest September you’ve ever had.
We call it sex Denver for short. And there’s a challenge associated with it, which means you can win some prizes. If you participate. All those details are in the intimately us app. So you’ll want to download those for sure. Alright, now let’s talk to Tammy hill.
So, Tammy, you have 12 children, you’re extremely accomplished, you’ve an author of two books, you’ve taught at a university level, you’re a, licensed marriage family therapist, and also certified sex therapist, you’ve seen tons of people, lots of couples, lots of issues, lots of hard things, and you yourself, uh, you lost your first husband. So I think of all the people I know, you’re very, very qualified to answer this question. What does it mean to you to really cherish somebody?
Tammy: Well, Dan, I’ve been thinking about it since you sent me the email and actually today in therapy, I met with a young father, four children, the baby’s just four months old, which is how old my baby was when my husband died and his wife [00:05:00] suddenly died. And he is just grieving so hard and sitting with him for the last three months.
It brought back so much of the pain and heaviness, that happens when you lose a spouse and it kind of made me rethink maybe how I might answer this question on this episode tonight with you. if you were to think about what would you miss if your wife, Emily passed away? just think of all the things that you would miss and the heaviness that would come from it.
to me, cherishing someone is valuing that relationship so much more. That is integrated into your very soul. And then when it’s gone, it feels like it’s just totally ripped out of your very soul too. And it’s, it hurts. It’s so painful. and so to me, it is. Loving and appreciating and having gratitude for the opportunity to be in a relationship with someone who loves you.
And not that everything’s always rosy or perfect, but that together you value each other above yourself alone. You know, I think that’s what I think nourishing is.
Dan: That’s so good. It’s hard to love another person. I think, isn’t that in a way, I mean, there’s not a lot of love in the world. That’s why love is so precious to really love somebody. What are some examples that you’ve seen, in your own marriage or with as a parent to children of just. Acts of genuine love that you’ve found.
Tammy: To me, one of the very best ways that I see couples love each other is when they are genuinely excited about their spouse’s dreams and goals. And my husband Jeff is I don’t know anyone like him. He gets generally so even more excited about my life than I’m excited about my own life. I love when they truly cheer on each other and help each other accomplish Their dreams.
that’s something I love. Um, I love when people take time to create passion together and create space for that to happen is so easy with busyness of lives and tire exhaustion that comes with the busyness of life to kind of put sex on the back burner. And I know both of us have a passion for this in our work that we do.
And I just believe there is such. Energy that comes from a passionate marriage that can’t be found in any other. any other realm. And I believe that the love, the true love and, exposure in that love is really knowing one another in a way that you don’t see another soul and no one else sees you that way either.
And that’s just such sacred space to me. So cherishing has a lot to do with the passion I think that you build together. Helping each other with dreams. I think showing, respect for one another’s differences. Um, we have very different styles. I’m sure maybe you and your wife do as well. And, and maybe politically, we kind of feel a little different about some things.
And there’s so many things that can tear us apart or make us argue or get. ugly or snippy with each other. And it’s all right to have differences, but you don’t have to get ugly about the differences. Those are the things that come to my mind first off.
Dan: That’s great. I think differences is part of married life. We all have differences. Like you mentioned, what are some traps that couples fall into around differences and what are some ideas that you can encourage people to think about to help them see differences in a different way that are more productive?
Tammy: That’s a good question. I think when we start focusing on the differences in a way, we start looking for the negative in each other instead of looking for the, the goodness, in, in one another. And a lot of times it’s easy to, or even natural, maybe our natural tendency is to look at what’s not going right, or look at what we don’t have, or wish that we had something a little different, right?
And, and to see what it is we, We’re missing kind of and, when we focus on the differences, I think it’s easier to see and to feel that maybe we got robbed in this relationship or there would have been someone out there that you would have been happier with. And maybe you start actually checking out other people if it gets to a place where you have enough of a difference and the resentment build up between you.
I always talk [00:10:00] about like, if I had a great big white piece of paper right here, and I took a pencil and put a little dot on this blank piece of paper, our eyes are going to focus on the dot, right? That’s the one mar that we see on the paper. And so, to me, I have to kind of
Dan: Uh, our brains are hardwired for that.
Tammy: right. And so instead of focusing on that dot to think of all of the good, the white, all of the things that are happening that are, are good and that are evidence that your life together is really quite sweet.
And, um, so I think reframing, differences. appreciating the differences, but not getting stuck in them and trying to focus more on what is it that we together bless? How do we bless one another together?
Dan: I like that. That’s very good. Very good. That reminds me there was a time I was frustrated in my own marriage. And so I went for a nighttime run to just get out my anger, beat my feet against the pavement. And I was listening to a podcast and it had nothing to do with marriage. But the message, was along the lines that you, you, you get what you focus on.
And the person talking told a story about how, they had a book in their home growing up where part of it was sealed. It was like a metal clamp over a portion of this book and he and his brother tried to like get that clamp off, but they ignored the part that you could read the unsealed. Part, right? It’s completely ignored that. And in that moment is like, God spoke to me. It’s like, this is what I’m doing in my own marriage. I’m ignoring. The part you can read and enjoy and so intently focused on the sealed part, the not allowed
Tammy: I like,
Dan: wasn’t helpful.
Tammy: I like that analogy, Dan, and I agree a lot of times if we’re just being our natural selves, a lot of times it is looking for what we don’t have rather than celebrating what we do have.
One last question. How does inviting Christ into your life help you love and cherish your spouse better,
Tammy: That’s such a good question.
Dan: or how have you seen that operate and work in your life?
Tammy: I feel. When I’m aware of my personal covenants, I feel like I’ve made with God and when I am thinking of others with a view, more of an eternal perspective, and even especially with my Children in the past, when raising my Children, a lot of times, I would pray that I could see them the way that God sees them so that maybe I could love them a little better because sometimes
Dan: Yes,
uh,
Tammy: aren’t easy to love sometimes, teenagers.
So I believe when I personally am aligned, living my why, that I’m, I’m able to have a more generous heart. I’m able to see people more clearly in their divinity. And, and of course that always will benefit a relationship, marriage or otherwise.
Dan: excellent. Thank you.
Tammy: Thank you.
I’m so excited to listen to this episode. So
Dan: it’d be
Tammy: honored to be
Marker
Tammy: with you
Dan: Next is my mentor, Danielle Savory. She’s a fellow sex and marriage coach, and I love her outlook on a lot of things to do with sex. She likes to center pleasure as a center of sexual interactions, not just about being so goal oriented or about doing things out of duty. I really like her work on mindset.
So when it comes to cherishing your spouse through your sexuality, I can’t think of anyone better that might have a perspective here. That can really help me better understand what it means to cherish a spouse, specifically in the sexual arena.
So, Danielle, I want to ask you, what does it mean for you to cherish someone,
Marker
Dan: sexually or otherwise?
Danielle: well, when I first heard this question, like, I absolutely loved it because I do think that cherish is it’s such a beautiful word that goes beyond, like, what does it mean to love somebody? Or what does it mean to appreciate somebody? It feels to me, more like a sense of awe, in a
Dan: Mm hmm.
Danielle: like when you when you’re outside, or you have this, like profound moment with, like, your spirituality or nature, and it’s like this, like, awe, like, it’s so and full that it fills, fills you up, like almost overwhelming in some ways.
Dan: Uh huh.
Danielle: and so when you asked that question, it really made me think about how, how does cherishing work into my own relationship? Because I appreciate my husband. I love my husband, you know, I am attracted to my husband. I, you know, there’s all these other words [00:15:00] that I would use. And also I feel like there is this level of cherishing, but I wouldn’t say that was always there or it started and then kind of went away as life goes away because that sense of awe with the person that you’re with when you’ve been with them for decades naturally kind of can lose its luster oftentimes. And there was this moment. years ago. So it’s a very common like Buddhist practice sometimes and in and other and other religions and spirituality practices and mindfulness practices where you contemplate, and this sounds kind of weird, but you contemplate somebody’s that you love’s death or you contemplate losing something.
And the idea is to really get in touch with this feeling of impermanence.
Dan: Right.
Danielle: that I’ve done that kind of like a practice and, you know, in my own life, I’ve lost people, but I’ve also just like witnessed, especially hitting home, you know, couples that I know where somebody has passed or something like that.
It has brought up this, that sense of awe. When I look at you, whether it’s my kids or my husband, like this sense of like a cherish, like I really, really cherish these moments. Like I want to hold on to them. They’re so. important to me and doing that practice regularly, like allowing myself, because it’s a scary one to do, like you’re like, why would I think about my loved ones dying, right?
It doesn’t sound like a fun thing to do. And it’s one of the most beautiful practices, you know, that you can do because it brings that sense of like, Uh, and gratitude and then those little things like you didn’t take out the garbage or like you never this or like the things that we typically get in arguments about don’t seem to be true. that important. And not only that, a lot of times when you get out of this kind of a practice that I just walk out of my office, like our offices are right next to each other. We work together. I
Dan: Uh huh.
Danielle: in this, you know, and at home all day, every day. But it’s almost like in the movies, you know, and like Christmas carol or something where it’s like, you see them for the first time again, or you see them with these new eyes.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Danielle: I have really brought that in, not just into my important relationships, but because of the way that intimacy works, because of the way that we get turned on naturally is through novelty, is through being curious, is through like this like enamored,
Dan: Yes.
Danielle: with each other. And so when I allow myself to get to a place of cherish, it naturally brings on a turn on that might be different than just like explicitly, like erotic turn on, or thinking of fantasy or doing these other things.
like it really creates this very rich experience of slowing down and, you know, having this novelty even though it’s like somebody that’s So familiar. You’re also looking at them through the lens of impermanence and like, I don’t know how long and what if this really was the last day and like how that would look and how that would feel and like getting into it and like soaking in every moment.
So then when it comes to that perspective of cherishing your spouse, especially around sexuality, it’s like really paying attention from this place of like, ah, and like enjoyment and surrender and trust. And, um, I just think that some of my best sexual experiences has come from these like absolute cherishing moments of like, this is what we have.
This is what we have right now. And, you know, beyond that, I just think that it allows, It has an impact where it stays with you longer
and you realize like how important it is to like prioritize this because You really don’t know so it’s like I want to cherish the moments that we have like we have this week Like when are we gonna be connecting, you know?
like so that no matter what like I know that I’m gonna look back and be like Even if there was an argument right before we left, like there was still moments where we were so connected and intimate and cherishing each other on the regular, it puts a sense of, I don’t want to say urgency, in those connections, but for sure a sense of importance, a
sense of priority when you’re measuring up everything else and when it’s so easy to be like, does sex really matter?
Does pleasure really matter? Do these things really matter? It really can put in this sense of like, no, this really matters because it’s impermanent.
Dan: end of cherishing? In other words, what’s it like when your husband cherishes you?
Danielle: Well, I feel like he cherishes me [00:20:00] every
time I’m naked Uh huh. Uh huh. you know I I mean that’s part of that’s part of our love language and like our you know I think that’s always been something and I You know, I think for me, especially when we were younger it was you know, it was a confusing thing for me because I You know had like a body that was looked at by other men in certain ways.
And, and he looked at me in a similar way, but there was something different. And as my body changed, or as like when I went through like my health issues, or I was having this really hard time, like that didn’t change. And it was like this first time that it really like dawned on me, In a very visceral way, because you can be like, of course, he like, he loves me through everything.
He loves me through whatever. But when you’re not feeling lovable yourself, like when you’re going through these issues, and just like, how could you love me, you know, like, I’m whatever right now, or whatever
Dan: Mm hmm. Right.
Danielle: having somebody completely, like, not just love you, but like, cherish you. And I hesitate to use the word worship, but like worship you in a certain
Dan: Yes, uh huh.
Danielle: like look and, and like love and it, and you realize it isn’t this superficial thing, it’s like so much more and it just really, you know, I think being on the receiving end allows. More than anything has allowed me to have more love for myself.
Dan: Yeah,
Danielle: me to feel really lovable and worthy, because when you realize that there’s somebody there that cherishes you when you’re at your worst, and I don’t just mean like health wise, like something you can’t control as much, but like, at your worst behavior at your worst, like, you know, like
Dan: uh huh.
Danielle: you’re not really proud of and they can still hold space for you and cherish you.
Then it really shows that they’re, um, like, Oh, I can offer that to myself. Like I can offer myself that own, like, level of compassion and love and grace, um, that I think that so many, especially us women sometimes can be so hard on ourselves for a variety of things that being on the receiving end of cherishing has, um, allowed me to find my own self compassion.
Dan: That’s so good.
really resonates with me about how being cherished and chosen by someone when it’s hard to even choose yourself reminds me of like, uh, it was in 1954 when the first man ran a mile in under four minutes because before then everyone said it’s not possible.
The human body isn’t built to do this. And Roger Bannister broke the four minute mile record. And guess what? Because he did. A few weeks later, a second person broke the four minute mile, and then a third person broke the mile because he like showed that it’s possible.
It’s like It was a change in their belief.
What they used to believe they couldn’t, and now they believe they can. So it’s really about a mindset shift for a lot of athletes.
And I think, do you see this a lot in your practice where it’s really about the mindset shift? It’s about a new belief in them that makes them. More capable of cherishing and being cherished.
Danielle: Yeah, I think, and I think it’s definitely a belief, but honestly, even more than a belief, it’s still a mindset thing, but it’s a shift of attention.
You know, um, I, I think that so many people have the ability. To be cherished and to cherish but it’s like what are we focusing our attention on? So, you know when it comes to cherishing I don’t actually need to believe a bunch of great things about my husband You know, I don’t need to like be in this place of like deep belief.
It’s just what am I? focusing on like, where is my attention residing? And, you know, for me, when it comes to cherishing, it’s about nurturing, you know, it’s about revering, it’s about like adoring, like there’s these Things, and they’re already there. So if we shift our attention towards the types of things that create this feeling of cherishing or create kind of this, adoration and, and turn on and all of these other things. We don’t have to even change a belief, you know, it’s just like, am I, am I looking like I have different colored walls in my office? So it’s like, am I looking at a green colored wall? Or am I looking at the white colored wall, right? Like there’s these different like, we can literally just turn our head and remember Sometimes, like, what am I really focusing my attention on?
And when you’re choosing, like, I want to cherish this person, then what types of things can you allow your attention to be shifted towards that will create those experiences of [00:25:00] cherishing. And I think that that practice that I mentioned of, um, you know, almost going through this mental experience of losing them or the impermanence highlights those sorts of things.
You know, when we watch on movies, when somebody passes or something, it’s like this highlight reel of like the, the laughter or a tender moment or an exchange of like a gesture. Like it’s the, this highlight reel of, These things that allow cherish and it’s really just shifting attention. Like all those things are always there. It’s just, what are we paying attention to?
Dan: hmm. Mm hmm. Is there anything else you want to share?
Danielle: Uh, I just love that you’re doing this podcast episode. I think it’s so fun.
Dan: It’s good
Danielle: Such a great question.
Dan: Yeah. This is really good. Thank you
My next mentors are Alex and Katie Dutton. Now, the reason why I look up to them as mentors is they remind me of what marriage was like when I was only five years married, yet there’s a part of me that envies them because they’re so much further ahead in their five years than my wife and I was. Not just that, they have an interesting perspective that I think a lot of the listeners to this podcast can relate to.
happen to be the owners of Every Love Intimates. It’s an online lingerie and jewelry store. romance and date night brand. If you’re not familiar with them, check out everyloveintimates. com. It’s something that my wife and I subscribe to and absolutely love their products. And there’s a lot of heart behind what they produce.
So, let’s listen to them and get their perspective on cherishing in marriage.
Alex and Katie, thanks for being here.
Alex & Kadi: Yeah. Thanks for having us, Dan.
Dan: what comes up for you when you think about what’s it mean to cherish one another,
Alex & Kadi: That’s a very good question. We talked about a lot and we kind of broke it down into kind of different, some different categories that we would love to like share with you guys. and I think we kind of wanted to get started with like the idea of love. So do you want to share a little bit about that?
Cherishing kind of was like, if we think of love as a double sided coin, Love on one side and cherish on the other that they complete each other. love is that foundation of your life together, um, and unchanging commitment to care for each other. kind of like the vows that you make when you get married.
and so it’s I will take care of you. I won’t leave you. I’ll always be here. There’s that security that you have in love. but then you flip that over and you get cherishing, and that’s more of like that tangible realization of the deepest love that you can have for someone. And it’s that outward expression of it.
in an overflow of your affection and your devotion for that person. and I have to say, when we started thinking about it, Alex and I both got like really sentimental and we’re like, man, we need to cherish each other more. No, it was very convicting because we like, we really thought about this question because it’s a super good question.
I don’t think we think about it enough. Um, but yeah, I remember I was like, man, I like, I want to cherish you more. And like, it really convicted us to. To like really actually think about it. and I think going back to like, how it’s a double sided coin, I think most couples get the love part. They get the, I’m not going to leave you.
I’m here for you no matter what. This is an unwavering commitment. Um, yeah. Yeah.
Cause you, you, you can have that without kind of
without cherishing.
that you can have that love, that foundation of your relationship, but the cherishing is, is what kind of, It’s a little harder. I’ll let you. Yeah. And we were both, I feel like we’ve both naturally pretty romantic people.
Makes sense with like what we’ve ended up doing, but, um, especially at the beginning of the relationship, newlywed phase, it’s all very, natural to be very romantic and to cherish each other. You’re so excited about this commitment you’ve made. Um, it was almost all we did at first while we were dating and engaged.
It’s like cherishing each other was almost. Everything. Yes. And then you get married and then it kind of switches. I feel like for us, it stayed, at the beginning of marriage. And for me, it flipped when, um, I had a kid. So when, when we had our first child, of course, I had, when I had our son Walker, When he was born, that natural cherishing really flipped over to him.
Pretty much all of it, it was survival and it was take care of the baby. and where did Alex fit in and he was taking care of me. He was taking care of the baby. So I think he was still doing a lot of that. but for me, it really all switched. and it was probably a few months of that. And we had this big conversation of him.
Saying, Hey, I feel like I’ve kind of been replaced. and I know a lot of couples go through this, but that big realization of yes, his baby feels all consuming to us, but we [00:30:00] still, our marriage is first. and we still need to find that time, and have that at the forefront of our minds that, Hey, we’re building this family together.
and our love and our relationship, and that reflection of. Christ love for us is what our kids need to see first. And what we need to continue to give to each other, even when it’s tough. Yeah. So I think to break it down even a little more, cherishing is like the tangible steps you take towards like pursuing your partner. So I think you can almost look at cherishing with like, As pursuit. Yeah, so we have three words that we felt were really good synonyms that kind of encapsulate the word cherish. So that first one is pursuit. Yeah. So pursuit and we kind of related it to, if you’re familiar with scripture, the parable of the lost sheep.
so there’s this parable that Jesus tells about a shepherd who had 99 sheep and one ends up getting lost. And he leaves the others to go find that other sheep, find that one sheep because he cared about that sheep so much. so I think kind of having that idea of like, Your, your spouse is like your number one, like you’re going to forsake everything else that you have when your spouse needs you, or even if, you know, you don’t feel like they necessarily ran away, but they’re the one that you have your eyes on.
So pursuit. And the second one is nourish. and so that one came from Ephesians 5, 25, where it says that husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife, loves himself for no one ever hated his own. but nourishes and cherishes it just as the Lord does the church. And, um, I kind of thought about that.
I have, I have the worst, I do not have a green thumb. I have the worst instincts with plants, but we’ve been going through plants with my son in preschool and like teaching him. And, I thought of a plant because. When you go to plant something, you learn about it a ton and you do everything that it needs and you don’t just throw it on the soil and then leave it.
You give it everything it needs. You plant it at the right time. You water it, you come and check on it. You’re like, Hey, is it growing? Even when you know, you don’t necessarily need to go look on it. You feel the soil, you make sure it’s in a good place. You turn the pot if you need to for sunlight. there’s all these things that go into nourishing a plant.
and although your spouse is. independent and they don’t need, you know, all of that care to survive. that aspect of you doting on them and you investing your own personal joy and worth in their wellbeing and in seeing them thrive, is a huge part of cherishing.
Dan: Love
Alex & Kadi: that. and the last one is treasure. So we have pursue, nourish, and treasure.
And I think when you hear treasure, sometimes you think of something that’s like buried or hidden away, but we want to kind of go at it, frame it as like another parable. Jesus told the man with the talents, so money. so there’s this story of these 3 guys, and each 1 of them got a certain amount of money, and then, their master, the guy who was in charge of them said, okay, you guys are in charge of this money, do with it what you’re going to do with it, and then come back to me and in a couple of weeks, and we’ll see where you’re at.
Alex & Kadi: So one man took his money and just buried it. And that’s how we think of treasure, like the dragon that hoards all the stuff and loves it. And that’s what we’re kind of tempted to do. And it kind of should be how we feel with cherishing. Like, I want you all to, myself, I want time with you. You know, there’s an aspect of that. But the one that was praised, if you want to go through the rest of the story, the guy who he kind of, uh, used to use the money a little bit, kind of barred with it, made a little bit more came back to the guy in charge. And it’s a hair doubled it. And then there was another guy who took his few pieces of money when invested it, when did all this stuff with it and brought back 10 times as much as he was given.
So I think that’s kind of how we look at cherishing and treasuring in that way is that you don’t just take from your spouse and kind of hide it and just use it for yourself. you kind of take the things about them you love and Um, treasure, cherish and trying to think of another word that,
Dan: Maybe a magnify, like build on top of what
Alex & Kadi: that’s great.
You kind of magnify who they are and what they are and everything that’s good about them. And I think in a relationship that’s thriving, you’re going to see each other, like you build each other up and that happens mutually and then you guys reach your full potential together. If you’re both doing that.
Yep. Yeah. So pursue,
nourish, and treasure. I think that just helps you think because cherishing is such kind of an abstract word that can mean a lot of different things, but it just helped us to kind of think of it in different ways. For us, that’s kind of where, um, really deep, pure intimacy can be fully realized when you’re really cherishing your spouse.
you’re feeling connected to them. It’s not just that physical fulfillment, but it’s motivation and it kind of stems from. That indescribable love you have for each other. and those all three of those words, the nourishing and the treasuring, um, it was the first one that I pursued and the first, that’s probably the most important in the [00:35:00] intimacy category.
But yeah, in pursuing each other, it’s just this urge to express how you feel and think about your spouse. and that’s when intimacy is so much more valuable. It’s not just a box you check off, but it’s a true, meaningful experience that Fuels the rest of your relationship and manifest itself in continual cherishing.
Yeah. And I think the point that, I don’t know, I think we read this, so we won’t take, credit for it, but it’s
clear that your spouse is probably, the only person you’re going to truly receive like a, a cherishing spirit from, you can get love from a lot of different people in your life, but you But in a marriage, I think to like truly feel cherished is only going to come from your spouse.
So I think if you’re not showing your spouse how much they mean to you and then like you’re the most important thing in my life to me and like you’re the only one I want to be with, they might not be getting that from anywhere else. So I think that’s just, that helps me think about a lot is like, okay, I need to really show Katie that she’s like my number one.
Dan: You two are a cute couple. As you talk, you’re like bumping into each other and Yeah. That’s great.
Alex & Kadi: We’re going on a date. Yeah. We’re going on a date.
Dan: Well, you’re, this is, this is, this is foreplay. This is warming up for the
Alex & Kadi: Everything is for.
Dan: Absolutely. You got that right.
Alex & Kadi: Yeah.
Dan: cause I coach a lot of couples. I work with a lot of couples and I dive into their sex lives and to see kind of what’s going on. And there’s this quality that I see in certain couples that really struggle around sex where they approach sex is really a way to reinforce themselves. it’s like the give to get mentality. I will do the dishes for you. I’ll help with this so that I can get this from you. There’s like a quality of extraction, or I see it on the flip side. Sometimes it’s, I’ll give in and give sex so that, you know, my spouse will no longer. Like Pat, like be pouty and grumpy. And so it’s really about managing another person’s moods is, is, is, again, it’s a give to get, cause you want to get a sense of peace from them. but it’s, it’s so pervasive in a lot of marriages. They don’t even see that that’s the dynamic they’re operating in.
What would you say to a couple like that? to help them break through those patterns and to see Pursuit and nurturing and treasuring instead.
Alex & Kadi: I think, I think we dealt with that some early on of like, and I think it was more of having the mindset of like sex is for my gratification and, and flipping that switch just through conversations and just talking about it for us was the way we got there was like, okay, no sex is going to be about taking care of you.
Um, and, and obviously then it’s great for me, but kind of flipping that switch towards. Towards like your gratification and not necessarily just mine. so I think conversations and we say this with a lot of stuff with people we like who work with us, but yeah, just talk about it like, and get on the same level of, what we want out of this.
Um, I think a lot of times spouses don’t know what you want, especially with sex. So I think just. Telling them and talking about it and maybe you don’t even know what you want. Um, that’s something we learned over the years is a lot of people, especially with intimacy, don’t exactly know what they want, but as a couple, you can learn that together.
That’s one of the coolest parts about marriage is that whatever’s going on, you can do it together and you can learn each other. Yeah. And I would say like piggybacking off of what you’re saying, I think it’s the mindset shift of correcting that. That myth that sex is for the other person. but figuring out why you think that, because if it is right now, then maybe what’s happening in the bedroom isn’t like, maybe there needs to be more or different, and unpacking, okay, well, what is intimacy for me?
And then what is it for them? And what does it mean for us combining those two things? because what’s happening in the bedroom? or out of it actually to might be the reason we’re thinking it’s for someone else. Um, and so getting out of that mindset of, okay, well it has to be, you know, five minutes and then intercourse or, you know what I mean?
It, maybe it needs to be something entirely different, some of the time. And so just kind of unpacking that, that’s a huge one to unpack. and then on the flip side, not always expecting that, but. More focusing on what attracted to you, you, to them in the first place. knowing our audience, most of us probably didn’t meet each other through a one night stand.
So there were probably other elements that, and even if you did, then what kept you there, something else kept you, something else kept you there. So what were those things that attracted you to them that [00:40:00] brought you joy, that gave you life, that made you feel loved and come back to those and let the cherishings.
Start there rather than dragging yourself to the bedroom, and then hoping that it gets better once you’re there, kind of start with those two shifts, , and be more flexible with what’s happening. And I think that kind of can shift it for you. Yeah. When, when we started talking about this, we learned that we had very different ideas of what intimacy looked like, like just tangibly, like what it looked like for both of us.
It was very different. So when I knew what Katie was expecting and wanted and when she knew what I was expecting and wanted, we can go into the experience Knowing that okay. Well Katie wants this. Let’s do some of that and Katie knew. Oh Alex wants this And it’s the world the world educates what sexuality is And so if you didn’t have a good sex education then or even if you did it still has to be personalized.
So even what you, especially, I think for a woman, it’s a little more complicated sometimes. So even what you think is what you want, if like, just both of you try to be patient and flexible with each other, because it can change seasonally. It can change throughout your life based on what’s going on in your.
Physical health, your mindset, your circumstances, everything could change. There’s hormones, there’s menopause, there’s ed, there’s so many things that go on and intimacy is still possible. And it’s still so crucial to your marriage. so I think just continually kind of checking in on that, and remembering, Hey, It doesn’t have to look the same. It doesn’t have to be what the world tells me it looks or feels like. it needs to be what works for us and what honors God in our marriage. Um, and when you dedicate yourselves to learning that and continuing to learn that, not only do you experience better intimacy in the bedroom, but you experience the fullness, I think, of, Your relationship of cherishing one another, you grow together, you trust each other, you get through hard times together.
You tick off all of those boxes that they say lowers your risk of divorce because you’re in it together with something that can challenge you and cause you to continually learn about each other and
Dan: as you’re talking, I just think about like,
marriage, and I see this with other couples too, you get to a point where you do kind of like, learn how to function sexually fairly well. Like you figure out the things that work for you and things are going well, yet, you know, there’s a next level for you, but there’s, it’s like the strong inertia forces or some like force that keeps you where you are.
Cause it’s comfortable. And it’s risky to say, you know, I think we need to change our routine or change the way we approach because if you step outside of that, you risk offending your spouse, you risk, getting no sex uh, you know, other, other things are at risk. So a lot of couples kind of settle for. the status quo, and it takes an incredible amount of honesty to really look inside and say, you know, the way I’m approaching sex is really for my own gratification, or I manipulate you, or I, I really coerce you in very subtle, nice ways that aren’t actually really nice. So that you reinforce what I want, whether that’s to have more sex or to have less sex or to do certain sexual behaviors or not.
And it takes a great deal of integrity to go deep inside and say, you know what? The way I’ve been operating isn’t the best for our marriage. Let’s fix that and change that. And I, I like what you’re talking about, about pursuing, because when you actually pursue your spouse, I think you’re actually pursuing them as a person, as a person separate from you. Whereas what keeps a lot of couples stuck in the status quo really isn’t pursuit of anything other than, staying comfortable because then they don’t have to actually pursue their spouse, right? They don’t have to actually take that risk to, to go after something different. So this is, uh, Wonderful to talk
Alex & Kadi: Yeah. Yeah. Like, like we said, just talking like that gives a lot of freedom to changing things because if you can both be on the same level and they’re not always easy. They’re not the easiest conversations. Um, sometimes it can be difficult, but they’re definitely worth it for sure.
Dan: Thank you very much, Alex and Katie. has been fantastic.
Alex & Kadi: you and everything you do.
