I’ve been looking forward to releasing this 200th episode for a long time, and I wanted it to be extra special. And while pondering that, a few months ago, a tragedy struck our family. My wife’s cousin, a bubbly, happy 29-year-old mother to three kids (ages seven, four, and one) went jogging with some friends on a Monday morning, like she usually did.
And after she was done, she put the jogging stroller in her car, she buckled up little kids and left the park. And as she went through an intersection, a drunk driver ran a red light and smashed into her car, killing Emily’s cousin instantly.
This is so tragic. And very heavy.
I’ve been pondering a lot about what happened. And in my mind’s eye, I imagine what the interaction was like between her and her husband the night before, while they were getting ready for bed, while they’re brushing their teeth. Did he realize that this is going to be the last night he had with his wife? When they left that morning, did they kiss goodbye? Did they realize that was going to be their last time together?
This event has really galvanized my wife and I. We’ve been thinking a lot about what it means for us in our relationship. And it’s really led me to cherish my wife a lot more.
My Personal Project
And so this set me out on a personal project to understand the concept of cherishing a little better.
This project has really changed me. It has changed me in my intimate interactions with my wife and with my children and with others. I’ve learned how to be a lot more present with them, less anxious.
And the way I make love to my wife has brought a different tone to our marriage.
It’s more connecting, it’s more real, it’s more eyes open. There’s a more genuine desire to be close to each other in our love making also.
To help me in my quest to better understand cherishing and what it means for me in my life and in my marriage, I’ve sought out a few mentors to help me and I’ve recorded our conversations. I’ve asked them just a simple question: “What does it mean to cherish your spouse?” And I just sat back and listened as these great teachers shared so many nuggets from their life experiences.
Because this topic has had such a big impact on me, and I didn’t want you to miss any of it, I’ve decided to split this into two podcasts episodes.
In this episode, you’ll get to hear from Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Alana Martens (from Kingdom Sexuality), and Tony DiLorenzo (from One Extraordinary Marriage).
And in a special bonus episode on Monday, August 19, you’ll get to hear part 2 from Tammy Hill, Danielle Savory, and Alex & Kadi Dutton (from EveryLove Intimates).
Takeaways
As you listen to what these wise people say . . .
♥️ I hope you’ll listen with an open heart.
♥️ I hope it changes you as much as it changed me.
♥️ I hope this episode will inspire you to treat your spouse with a lot more appreciation and a lot more dignity.
♥️ I hope you’ll find greater strength to look past the trivial barriers that get in the way of true connection.
♥️ I hope it motivates you to put down the phone more often and to actually gaze into your spouse’s eyes.
♥️ I hope it motivates you to put your arm around him or her and hold them close, because you never know, today might be the last day you’ll be together for a long time.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Episode 200: The Art of Cherishing Your Spouse, Part 1
Hello, my friend. And welcome to this special episode of the, get your marriage on podcast. We have reached a major milestone today with episode number 200. I can’t believe it. I didn’t think that when I started this podcast, I’d be releasing an episode every week consecutively for 200 weeks on something to do with sex and intimacy in marriage.
Dan: Now, I’ve been looking forward to releasing this episode and I wanted it to be extra special, something different than any other episode, Everly so far. And while pondering that a few months ago, a tragedy has struck our family. My wife’s cousin. She’s a very bubbly, very happy person. 29 years old, three kids ages, seven, four, and one. She went jogging with some friends on a Monday morning, like she usually does.
And after she was done, she put the jogging stroller in her car. She buckled up her one-year-old and her four year old and their car seats and left the, uh, the park where she was with her friends to drive home. And as she went through an intersection, A drunk driver ran a red light and smashed into her car,
killing Emily’s cousin instantly. This is pretty tragic. And very heavy. And mind you, this cousin of Emily is she’s the bubbly personality. She’s the one that has lots of friends. She’s the one that cheers up others all the time. And she’s also a really good mom and these little kids need their mom and to have their mom taken from them instantly like that.
I’ve been pondering a lot about what happened and in my mind’s eye, I imagine what was the interaction between her and her husband the night before, while they’re getting ready for bed while they’re brushing their teeth. Did he realize that this is going to be the last night he had with his wife? When they left that morning, did they kiss goodbye? Did they realize that was going to be their last time together?
This event has really galvanized my wife and I we’ve been thinking a lot about what it means for us in our relationship. And it’s really led me to, cherish my wife a lot more.
And so this set me out on a personal project to understand the concept of cherishing a little better.
This project has really changed me. In my intimate interactions with my wife and with my children and with others. I’ve learned how to be a lot more present with them. , less anxious around them. I’m less likely to envy them because I learned you can’t love someone. You can’t cherish someone that you also envy.
And the way I make love to my wife is brought a different tone to our marriage.
It’s more connecting, it’s more real, it’s more eyes open
there’s this more genuine desire to be close to each other in our love making also.
To help me in my quest to better understand cherishing and what it means for me in my life and in my marriage, I’ve sought out a few mentors to help me and I’ve recorded our conversations. I’ve asked them just a simple question. What does it mean to cherish your spouse? And, uh, I just sat back and listened. As these great teachers from their life experience, I’ve shared so many wonderful nuggets with me.
Dan: ‘ cause I think this topic is so important and it’s had such a big impact on me.
I’ve decided to split this into two podcasts episodes. So today you’ll get to hear episode number 200 and next week is episode 2 0 1, which is part two of this same theme. Today, you’ll get to hear from three of my favorite mentors, you’ll hear from. Dr. Jennifer Finlayson Fife. You’ll hear from Elena from kingdom, sexuality and Tony Diller, Alonzo. from one extraordinary marriage. And next week. You’ll get to hear from Tammy hill. Danielle savory and Alex and Katie Dutton.
As you listen to what these wise people say.
I hope you’ll listen with an open heart. And I hope it changes you as much as it changes me. I hope as a result of this podcast episode, it’ll invite you to treat your spouse with a lot more.
Appreciation a lot more dignity.
I hope you’ll find greater strength to look past the. Trivial. [00:05:00] Nonsense. Often gets in the way of true connection. I hope it motivates you to put down the phone more often. And to actually gaze into your spouse’s eyes. I hope it motivates you to put your arm around him or her and hold them close. Cause you never know today might be the last day.
You’ll be together for a long time.
Before I introduce you to our first mentor. Let me tell you about a few things I have coming up. First is, our retreats. Our next one is an October 20, 24. And after that, it’s going to be March of 20, 25. And all the details are on my website. Or marriage on.com. These retreats are fantastic for couples that want to put all the things that we talk about on this podcast, into practice and their relationship. And they focused distraction-free fun and upbeat environment.
Also in the month of September, it’s our sex timber and you are invited to join Emily.
Dan: And I am making sex timber September, the sexiest one you’ve had yet. And all those details are going to be available. If you download the intimately us app. And you’ll find that those details there.
Last of all enrollment is open for marriage coaching program called the gear marriage on program. And this is for couples that want to apply these principles in a supportive group environment online. And that follows a course. more details are on my website for that as well.
The first mentor you’ll get to hear from today is Dr.
Dan: Jennifer Finlaison. She’s been a guest on my podcast several times.
She earned her PhD in psychotherapy from Boston college. She is a therapist turned coach that is, committed to helping Christians understand sexuality in their marriages.
She’s also one of my personal mentors and someone that I get to talk to frequently about understanding intimacy in my own marriage.
She has a few online courses and you can access those@finlaisonhyphenfife.com and they’re excellent.
So here we go.
So Jennifer, what does it mean for you to really cherish someone in your marriage?
Jennifer: Well, I think, many of us, want our spouse, or we need our spouse, to cherish is to move into a, a somewhat different position, which is to really choose your spouse. To say, I know you’re different than me. I know who you are. I know that you engage in the world in ways that are different from my own, but I love you. I value you. I care deeply about your presence in my life. And so it’s the ability to truly value someone. And when we need our spouse or we’re getting married to kind of solidify something for ourselves. We aren’t yet in a position to cherish. to cherish. is to be able to recognize this is a person that is separate from you, that has many qualities different from your own, and you have the capacity within yourself to value them and to be grateful for their presence in your life and to let them know it. To show it to them in a regular way. Yep.
Dan: like that. I once was in a business partnership that didn’t work out. And we’re supposed to split things 50 50, but I felt like I was doing far more of my share of the work, according to our agreement, than he was. And so I would justify, well he’s not working that hard, so I wouldn’t work so hard myself.
I would stop working as hard. And I think he would look at me and see my drop in productivity and justify that for not doing so much in his work, too. And I think this happens in marriages, too. We just, can you talk more on this dynamic that happens in a relationship?
Jennifer: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of us going back to the way that most of us get married is more in the idea of what marriage will give to us because we’re just not mature enough to really think about what we’re promising, which is to love this person. That’s in many ways, dramatically different from you.
That’s why you’re attracted. when we really think about what we’re committing to is that I’m going to love you, bring my best to you, care about you, In times that are good and bad and do that for the entirety of the marriage.
And that, and that’s a big commitment. And most of us are actually have a secret idea inside of us. Well, I’ll do that as long as you do that for me,
as long as you’re loving me and, you know, speaking my love language and making me feel good about myself, then I will love you in return, but you go first.
And I think a lot of us. it’s easy to run into the resentments in marriage because when we first fall in love, it’s really about sort of hyper validation that’s happening in that dopamine drenched state of, of falling in love. But once we bump up against more reality and the [00:10:00] expectation to share a life and to find a way to create realities that can accommodate two different people, Well, it’s really easy to start feeling resentment, you know, like I love having you here.
I don’t want you to go anywhere, but why can’t you do things the right way? I mean, this is really easy for us to feel and then to resent when our spouse doesn’t comply. So resentment and anger and hostility even are just a pretty normal response. Cherishing is more the aberration. It’s more deliberate.
It’s more courageous. It’s the willingness to love even when you’re not getting what you want, you know, and I teach a lot of online courses, but, uh, this, my relationship course, consider the core thesis of the course is how you behave when you’re not getting what you want determines the marriage.
Dan: Right.
Jennifer: that’s maybe not a very romantic idea for most of us,
but really, like, are, are we able to do the right thing? Are we able to love even when we’re not, when it doesn’t feel good to do it?
Dan: that’s the real measure of the marriage. How do you handle yourself when things don’t go well? Not when things are always fine and you have no trouble, right?
Jennifer: Right. Exactly.
Yes.
Dan: Any final tips on how to handle yourself when you’re in that crucible moment, when things just aren’t going well, when it’s so easy to become a victim to what’s happening, how do you step into something more courageous
Jennifer: first of all, I think we have to kind of see that we’re inclined to this. Justification mindset. You know, you were so such a jerk when you said that, or that was so dumb or unfair, therefore I can be dumb and unfair back. I think we have to wake up to that because again, it’s a death spiral.
It’s, it’s going to take the marriage down when we’re running it by the worst in ourselves. So if we can understand that impulse. And see it in ourselves. Then we are in a position to ask ourselves, who am I going to be? Right? What kind of person am I going to be in this marriage? Am I going to love? Because true love is an active agency. It’s not just in reaction to being loved. And so we have to reference our own integrity, our own higher self. We have to, we have to earn our own self respect. More even than the respect of a partner. That is, I have to be the kind of person that I know is respect worthy, that I can feel good about my behavior.
If you want a chance of a good marriage and a chance of being happy in your marriage, because if you live into your lesser self, even if your spouse lives into their better self, you won’t be happy because you know, That you’re not really someone that you respect. And that’s a big deal.
Dan: I can see how if I were to live into my better self, especially in those moments when it’s so easy to, justify victimhood or whatever. If I can really live into my better self, it actually makes me a easier person to love. Like for my, yeah, I become a better choice in that moment too. At least not, not in that moment, but maybe the next moment or the next, next time it sets me up for more success down the
Jennifer: absolutely. And I think when we’re really, truly coming from a stronger place inside a spouse, a child, a friend. Can map that pretty quickly. Like they can feel that it’s not reactive, that it’s not manipulative, that it’s not justified and it pulls for the better in them too. It, you know, your spouse, they always have their agency, but usually what we do in our relationships is we kind of just move into a reactive system.
And so we’re just reacting at the level that the system asks of us in a way, even though we’re co creating that reality. So when you bring her stronger self, you’re actually, you’re inviting your spouse to bring more integrity, more courage, more love to that engagement as well.
Dan: That is so good. These are great concepts, they might feel a little abstract to someone just listening to this. Any stories from your own life or from those that you know that kind of illustrate, kind of put flesh on these bones a bit? The time maybe when it was easy to justify withholding
Jennifer: There’s like so
Dan: a different choice.
Jennifer: micro moments really,
you know, I, I feel like I have a
spouse who’s just isn’t indulgent, doesn’t get reactive. I mean, sometimes, but not the infrequent thing. And that’s just been a huge blessing in my life. But I think if I were to kind of just pull a story, my mom was also very much that way. And, I don’t know how quick of a story this is, but, my mom had a neighbor. [00:15:00] Um, this was a few years ago and my mom had purchased this house from this neighbor’s mother, basically a decade before,
and including a lot of the furniture and so on. And a decade later, my mom was starting to redecorate some things.
And so she was giving some, some of the furniture away.
Dan: hmm.
Jennifer: the neighbor, this was fully legitimate to do because not only had my mom bought the furniture and the house, and it had been a decade, right?
Dan: Right.
Jennifer: It was not even profiting from it. She was giving it to people that needed it, but the neighbor’s mother had recently died.
Dan: Uh
Jennifer: And So she went into a very, and she’d had a very conflicted relationship with her mother.
Now, we didn’t know any of these things were going on at the time.
Dan: Hey, a couch is just a couch. A chair is just a chair. Uh huh.
Jennifer: exactly
what my mom’s just redecorating the house a
Dan: Right.
Jennifer: And she comes over and, and rings the doorbell and I was there and just very aggressively goes on the attack.
Just like completely like comes out of nowhere. It feels very irrational. I’m just like, wait, who is this person? And what is she doing? You know? So I’m,
I’ve got my defensiveness up, but my mom knew her. My mom had, you know, hadn’t seen her a lot for a couple of years, but had been friends with her. And my mom just came into this moment of, she’s really just off the rails.
The, the neighbor, when she shows up, it really just acutely regressed. And I just watched my mother just step towards her and say, Oh, you know, I am so sorry because I think it slipped out somewhere in there that her mother had died and how disrespectful it was in a sense of what we were doing. But my mom did not get defensive, didn’t even justify herself.
She just went in and said, I am so sorry about what you’re going through. And, and I want you to know how much we have loved this house and how much we’ve loved the things that your mother had here and how much they’ve benefited us. And they’re now benefiting others. So my mom gave some context, but. Was genuinely, I mean, it was, I think what was remarkable to me is that I just felt like, who is this person?
And like, I felt the kind of defensive self righteous energy.
And I just sat there and watched my mother’s brilliance just come in and care about this person and the whole thing just softened and stepped down and she was apologizing by the end. And I was like, super impressed. And then the other thing was like, I was telling my sister about it and I’m like, you wouldn’t believe this lady, sort of crazy, like shows up at the door.
I’m sharing it. In a kind of indulgent way.
Dan: Uh huh.
Jennifer: And my mom just didn’t participate. Didn’t like, she just was like, you know, I think that that’s been a hard relationship. Like my mom was just kind of caring about her in a way that I just thought was very impressive. And I’m. Grateful that I’ve had that kind of a role model, even though apparently I’m not nearly as good at it as she
Dan: huh.
Jennifer: But yeah, I think that was really kind of impressive in that moment to watch my mom come in with so much grace and kindness.
Dan: That is so good. Is there anything else you want to share for this recording? Right.
Jennifer: Well, I think just something I would say is that cherishing, sometimes we don’t do it because it’s very exposed to truly love. Like it’s one thing if your spouse says, I love you, and then you say, I love you back, or they’re kind to you and you’re kind back because you’ve got the cover of them already exposing themselves. But to truly love is to step out in front. It’s to be willing to say, I’m going to let you matter. I’m going to care about you, even if you don’t care about me. Um, I’m going to do right by you just in a unilateral way. And so it, it there’s risk in it. There’s exposure in it. And so we resist it
Dan: there’s no guarantees.
Jennifer: There’s no
Dan: right. Uh huh.
Jennifer: back or do the right thing or, you know, or receive it even.
But I think that, so we often hold back out of our perceived idea that it makes us safer.
Dan: Uh huh. We
Jennifer: doesn’t make us safer. We, we limit our lives so much when we live in that reactive, um,
Dan: maybe even.
Jennifer: yeah, transactional and cowardly way, really.
And I think when we dare to love, I mean, we, we create an environment and a reality that we then get to live in. So it takes courage, but it’s a much easier way to live ultimately. So, you know, I. Often encourage people like go and cherish your spouse. Let them know, let them [00:20:00] feel the ways that they matter to you.
The ways that they bless your life, that you’re grateful that they’re just simply there, that you love them because they exist mostly because they’re present in your life. And because learning how to cherish another human being flawed, as we all are imperfect, as we all are, it just is part of our spiritual and relational growth. But it’s also where the happiness is. It’s where the freedom is. It’s where the joy is and it’s a process and it’s not easy often to even know what it means to do right by another person, but it always requires more of us and it requires courage from us, but we’re blessed for it. It makes our lives richer.
Dan: Gotcha. Maybe someone listening to this might be in a situation where they, they get this concept, they want to cherish more, but they really don’t know what that looks like in the end. Maybe some good advice there would be, well, just take the one next right step, right?
Towards,
Jennifer: I would
say the kind of the first way to think about it is to live in gratitude, like to cherish your life is to live in gratitude for the fact that you get to live it, that you’re here at all. It’s very easy to think about all the things that went wrong today, but the fact that you were able to wake up is a privilege that a lot of people didn’t have today. And you were given the gift of a day and people in your life that you take for granted because it’s our default. Yeah. But if you could imagine losing them suddenly, right, how deeply your life would be devastated, right? And so It’s just allowing your gratitude and the acknowledgement of how much these people bless your life to be more present in the relationship. So it’s just being more honest in a way, being more acknowledging. And so I think. You know, one of the things we did when I was growing up is that my mom had us on the birthday of the, of the sibling. We would all say what we loved and appreciated about the person. The thing that was great about it is it just got it to be normal, to express gratitude.
At first it was awkward, but with time it just became a normal way of being in relationship. And so, you know, I just. I just tell my spouse all the time, things I just, I can’t help myself. I just always saying the things that I love and value because it’s just a way of like, it’s a way of making the abundance in the relationship more present. And it’s good, not just for your partner. It’s not good just for the relationship. It’s good for your own soul because the more we acknowledge the good in our lives, the happier we are. And so it’s just a really good habit to be in to, to acknowledge the good, even in the face of the difficult. There’s always difficult, but there’s always good too.
Dan: you’re saying kind of sounds like the grass grows greener where you water it.
Right where you’re putting your attention and it’s so easy to put your attention on the negative the faults the shortcomings But can you take a step back and also and know there might be shortcomings there might be limitations because hey We’re all flawed right?
But what about the good? What about like are you watering that or at least giving it equal attention? I think you’d
Jennifer: Yeah.
And you know, my husband sometimes just said things like every virtue has its correlating vice. And so that is to say, oftentimes the things in our spouse that we. Love have a negative side as well, or vice versa. And
Dan: Yes.
Jennifer: we buy into the whole package like that and they do with us. And so that’s just life and we got to get over ourselves if we think somehow it should be different than that, or we should be living in a problem free or a stress free relationship.
That’s just, isn’t how life seems to be set up. And so the more we can actually get out of our entitlement and into our gratitude, the happier we are.
Dan: That is so good. Thank you so much.
Jennifer: my pleasure.
Dan: fantastic. My
next mentor is Elena from kingdom sexuality. If you haven’t heard of her, you can follow her on Instagram. At kingdom sexuality. She has a fantastic Instagram account, by the way, she has a great website and a good mailing list also. So I recommend you hop on and get to know her and what her team produces there. And I love her perspective because she’s coming from those days when kids are still in diapers and you have young kids and how it’s just really hard sometimes to even think about connecting intimately with their spouse at that stage.
Elena, so glad to be with you this evening. I want to ask you, what does it mean for you to cherish your spouse?
Alana: Yeah, so I was thinking about this and so something, another kind of business that I do on the side as well as, you know, podcasting is photography. And I recently had the pleasure of photographing a wedding actually this past weekend. And it [00:25:00] had been a while since I had even like attended a wedding. So it
Dan: Uh huh,
Alana: a helpful reminder of actually like, so many of our followers are actually in the middle of,
um, which is very cool. And I thought of it as, you know, like vows when you’re saying your vows and the traditional like to have and to hold, and cherish as long as you both shall live. I
mean, I don’t know if Cherish is actually in there, but I
feel like it could be,
Dan: right, right, uh huh,
Alana: was like struck by the like, man, like are we cherishing our spouse like we did on that day than we first said I do.
Dan: uh huh, yeah
Alana: thinking about it more like, I was like, okay, cherishing, so like. As a young mother, I often hear like, Oh, like cherish those days cause they’ll go by so fast,
Dan: right, uh huh,
Alana: so true. Like I, you, you know, you’re like, Oh yeah, I get it. And of course they do, like doesn’t make the hard days any easier, but I totally understand the sentiment. But then, when I was thinking about that same sort of sentence, like cherish the days because they go by so fast, in relation to marriage,
Dan: uh huh,
Alana: that’s kind of convicting because am I still cherishing my spouse the way I did when we were dating and first holding hands or you have your first kiss and you soak in those moments of what’s going on around you?
And like, to me, that’s cherishing.
Dan: yes,
Alana: and I remember when Jeff and I were first dating, I would look at his hands and I was just really struck by them and like, man, like thinking those are the hands that would one day like, you know, hold mine when we’re saying I do at the altar or, like hold my babies. And we’re just dating then. But you know, you’re just kind of struck by this, like grandness of what could be.
And I’m like, man, like, do I? Still think of his hands like that? Or like, do I still think of those moments with such, like, tenderness and thoughtfulness?
Dan: hmm,
Alana: Man, I don’t know. And then if I think of this, like, sexually, you know, for people to think of, like, cherishing their spouse during sex.
Or like, are you being fully present? In what’s happening. Are you being mindful of like the sexual encounter that’s happening or are you kind of in like the let’s just get it done mindset,
Dan: right,
right?
Alana: I think there’s totally a time and a place where you would have that mindset. You know, you’re having a quickie.
You’re like, okay, let’s let’s do it. Whatever the baby’s crying. Yeah, quick. Let’s do it. Like, but I don’t know if the majority of the time we want to posture our hearts in a place that’s, being intentionally present and in the moment of what’s going on. And to me, I think of cherishing and I think of slowing down
Dan: uh huh,
Alana: in, in my mind, like I can’t cherish something if I’m going fast.
Dan: right
Alana: Like if I like, let’s imagine you’re. eating your favorite dessert.
Dan: Uh huh.
Alana: And like, what’s your favorite dessert?
Dan: Uh, brownies. Chocolate brownies.
Alana: Love it. Love chocolate brownies. Okay. So imagine they’ve got like chocolate chips in them. There’s ice cream on top and it’s kind of melting and they’re like so warm and a gooey. And then you’re on the last bite
and you just, you just like take your extra time with it, right?
Because you just want to cherish that last bit of this delicious gooey brownie as long as you can. And so to me, like, I mean, that’s what I do anyways. I always try to, you know, soak in the last
Dan: Right, right. Uh huh. It’s just like you’re cherishing it.
Alana: And so, to think of your marriage, of being in this place where you can kind of unhurry yourself enough to really be present and be aware of your spouse where you don’t hurry that kiss goodbye but you let it linger and you know, you actually just, you know, after sex, just lay in the bed together and soak in, now you’re like that extra bond of glueness that’s, you know, tying you guys together extra close,
to soak in that and And to me, like that’s cherishing.
Right. And so
anyways, I just, I thought it was awesome to think about it and think more deeply about what is actually going on in my marriage. And am I actually slowing down enough to see those like snippets of sunshine as they’re going past, or am I going too fast to even see them?
Dan: Mm hmm. You’re not even noticing. You’re not even taking things in. Right.
Because you’re so much focused on the tasks or where you need to go. You don’t notice. Your spouse, even.
Alana: Yeah. Hurry kills relationships. Love takes time. Hurry doesn’t have it.
Dan: hmm.
Alana: And I think in the pace of life, it’s so easy to be going to the next thing, going to the next thing.
You know, there’s work. You have to do this. You have to get your kids here. You’ve got to go to this place. And there’s, I mean, we can’t, totally escape that. I
don’t
Dan: hmm,
Alana: But in the same moment, I think there are things in our life that we could say no to, to say yes to more intentional time with our spouse and to create space to [00:30:00] cherish more and to have those moments of really sinking in to the time together. Because you, I mean, I think about, like, I, I remember once reading this thing where this woman, her spouse had recently died
Dan: Uh huh.
Alana: was like, the amount of times she’s like, I. Was frustrated and upset over the laundry that went right beside the hamper and didn’t go in the hamper. She
Dan: Uh huh. Mm
Alana: don’t overthink it.
Like, just be so grateful you have us both throwing their dirty socks beside the hamper. and I think, thinking like that, you’re like, man, I do need to cherish the good, the bad, and the ugly. Because that makes up who we are in our relationship. And so Yeah, it’s just, it’s really, it’s like a powerful and like convicting thing to think about. You know, am I slowing down enough to see what’s going on and to, to, to make the space to cherish my spouse. So yeah, I thought it was a really cool thought.
Dan: It’s good. Nothing in life is guaranteed is it
Alana: No,
Dan: and we’re not entitled to anything either. We’re just it’s a gift. Everything’s a gift In what ways in your marriage if you can share?
Alana: Mm hmm.
Dan: you really felt cherished by Jeff or you’ve cherished Jeff like treat each other as for that as that gift as You would
Alana: I think like synonymous with. cherishing, I often think of like selflessness. And so to me, like when Jeff’s gone out of his way to intentionally put me first,
that’s when I feel really cherished and valued. And so I remember at one point, we were, we had been married a number of years and my grandfather was really sick.
And so things, and I was working a lot. I had two jobs. Jeff was in school. We were really busy. And one, one day I came home. He was still at university and, there was a dress on the bed and a note beside it. And he’s like, Hey, like I have a date planned. We’re going out tonight. I would love for you to wear this dress.
I’d love it if you would curl your hair and like, you know, get dressed up pack something warm for later on in the evening. Cause I’ve got something else planned afterwards. and like, I’ll be home at seven or whatever it was.
Dan: Uh huh.
Alana: Oh my goodness. I felt so seen and like cherished and loved and valued because he like took that extra step. To, to know one that like, gifts is my love language. Like
Dan: Uh huh. Uh
Alana: went out of his way to like do that special thing.
Dan: Uh huh.
Alana: And not only that, but it was just making space for me in a really busy time. And so we went out, we went and we got a steak and then we went and watched a movie together and it was fantastic.
And I think that’s one of the things that will like forever stand out in my mind of like, he went like the extra mile and I like forever hold that as like a beautiful memory. That. in that space, I felt so, so cherished.
Dan: I love that. That’s great. What a great story. What a, what a stud.
Alana: I know. I know. It’s like, well, now you have to do this all the time. And so I don’t know if that happens all the time, but then it wouldn’t be as special.
I don’t know.
Dan: But that’s the point, right?
How about the ordinary things that couples can do every day?
Alana: Well, one, you make a plan and for myself, I, in my journal or not my journal, sorry, my day planner
Dan: Uh huh.
Alana: at the top, I’ll often write, um, did you go the extra mile today?
Dan: Mm hmm.
Alana: And to me, that’s like, did I go the extra mile? I think about it. Okay. With my kids, did I, you know, knees to the ground, was I playing on the floor with my kids? Did I go the extra mile with them today? I think about it in my home. Okay. Well, did I go the extra mile? Did I, you know, whatever it looks like in the season I’m in, you
know, in this kind of.
kind of postpartum y season I’m in. I’m like, okay, I picked up the toys or I emptied the dishwasher. Cool. Was that the extra mile for me today? Maybe. Did I vacuum? Sure. Or with my spouse, like with Jeff, did I go the extra mile and pursue him in some way today? And so I think even for people to have that, like, did I cherish my spouse today? Somewhere as like a challenge to yourself to be like, hmm, did I put them first? Did I pursue them? Did I do something to make them feel cherished and loved? So I think that would be another practical thing that couples could do to kind of evaluate if they were, you know, implementing this and trying to, trying to make space for that where you purposefully see it and you’re like, okay, no, I need to make space for this today.
I need to somehow do something that will make my spouse feel cherished.
Dan: We live at a time when there’s a lot of division, politically or even in homes, even in marriages, there’s a lot of division and it seems like love is hard to find. That’s why real love is such a precious commodity.
Alana: Hmm.
Dan: what are your thoughts on what it means to love someone, maybe your spouse.
Especially when there’s differences.
Alana: Yeah. Yeah, I think. even within cherishing, like it could, you could easily have a pity party and be like, Oh, but my [00:35:00] spouse doesn’t do this.
Dan: He doesn’t do my love language or whatever it is,
Alana: he’s not pursuing me. Like he used to, he used to do this when we were dating and he doesn’t anymore. And I, I mean, I’d encourage you to think about it the other way around.
Like, are you, have you been pursuing them? You know, I think, especially as women, we often just expect are supposed to step up and do the things, but if you have like, are we willing to do the things to and you know, make the space and ask the questions and be willing to hear the answer, whether we like it or not. but I think just having a lot of conversations too and, praying about it, like ask Holy Spirit to let you know when, when, you should be having those conversations or, you know, to give you out of the box ideas and what does my spouse actually need? And even to ask them like, how can I be praying for you and just start small and let them know that you’re you’re with them, whatever it is. but yeah, because yeah, it can be tricky to keep your love on when things are off kilter, but I think, you know, when you did make that vow, I think that was a part of it too, is. Better for worse. And so you have to intentionally choose. No, I’m going to keep my love on and I’m going to love on them no matter what, whether it’s easy or it’s hard. I’m going to try and put them first and do that for them.
Dan: That is so good. Thank you. Thank you.
Alana: You’re welcome.
Tony, what does it mean to you to really cherish your spouse?
Tony: It’s such a, it’s such a great question, Dan. It really is. And, and so before we got on, I just wanted to look at definition of cherish because I wanted to make sure that as I answer this, you and I are on the same page, but whoever’s listening, like, what does that mean? Cause I think sometimes we say these words and we’re like, Well,
Dan: It sounds good.
Tony: to cherish her.
Okay. But what does that mean?
And for me, that’s the way I see the world. And so cherish means to protect and care for someone. And so when I look at that lens, I go, okay, how do I protect and care for my beautiful wife, Elisa?
Dan: Uh huh,
Tony: And it’s interesting because we’ve been married 27 years. And I would say that has changed over the years.
By far. I mean, we, we grow,
Dan: right,
Tony: so where I am now looks vastly different than where I was, say, even five, 10 years ago. But as I look at this and I go, okay, how do I protect and care for Lisa? And then I, then I put in that layer of the six pillars of intimacy, which you know, is our, is our framework.
So if I look at emotional intimacy, how do I protect her or care for her in that? to her. Sometimes I got to shut my mouth and Just listen to her. And that’s a caring in a protecting standpoint. It may be if something is happening and I need to step in and use my words, I need to communicate to somebody to like, Hey, back off of my wife.
I’m protecting her in that way. So that’s the way I would see that one. Physical intimacy. the way that we have done this for many, many years, For us, it’s just that touch, right? The non sexual touch, and it’s something that as I’ve gotten older, it’s interesting, man, there’s a period of time where we love for us.
This one is, let me just share it, share it this way. It’s sleeping naked.
Dan: huh,
Tony: it. Right. But I feel like five, even five years ago,
Dan: uh huh,
Tony: there was much more intention around that.
Dan: uh huh,
Tony: And yet as we’ve aged, I need to like continue to care for her in that way and vice versa. Like it goes sort of both ways,
but it’s, it’s interesting how our bodies begin to change and things begin to shift when you’re hitting your late forties and early fifties.
Dan: yes, definitely,
yeah,
Tony: You know what I’m saying? So,
Dan: And you’re talking about your body shifting, meaning gravity, just kidding, yeah,
Tony: it’s just like aches and pains, dude.
Dan: yeah, uh huh.
uh huh.
Tony: of like. I can’t, I can’t put my arm like that. Like I want to, but I still want to care for her in that physical intimacy. So it’s just like, okay, how do I do that? That connects us together.
My children are adults now.
Dan: uhhuh,
Tony: My youngest just graduated from high school. so as they get to that point and they can drive and they can make their own things and they can, it gets a little easier. But you get a little lackadaisical and
just sort of like, well,
what do you want to go eat? Like, who cares? Like every, every time we go out, it’s sort of like a date, but am I really cherishing her and taking her out to something special? And I think that’s what I need to work on. Even in this area and on this pillar and my own marriages, I need to still cherish her and take her out somewhere. That’s like, Oh, this is fun. Like we both love musicals. So I need to just be able to go, let’s just go to a musical. Let’s go do
Dan: Uhhuh. [00:40:00] Uhhuh.
Tony: And then sexual
intimacy. This one, as we’ve aged to, I think it’s caring for her where she’s at in her own body and
in loving her. And it’s not only about me. I think when I was younger, sex and especially sexual intercourse is always about me. And as
I’ve grown older, the way I cherish Elisa in this is. Hey, if she’s not in the mood for a certain position or something, it’s okay.
Like
when I was younger, I’d be like, what do you mean? Like, I can’t believe now. It’s
sort of like, okay, well I know we have our intimacy lifestyle. I know we’re going to, we’re going to be sexually intimate two to three times a week. So if it’s not going to happen tonight, going to care for you, around this pillar and just honoring, to me, it’s more of an honoring that cool. Like this is where you want to be, but then we still have those discussions and tough discussions, that allow us to, to grow in that as well. So That’s how I, I cherish my beautiful wife and how I need to grow. because as you and I both know, I think in this journey of marriage, we never, we can never look at ourselves as being perfect and we know it all.
And so I think that stagnates us more than being willing to go, you know what? I do need to cherish my wife a little bit better.
And so I, I so appreciate that question.
Dan: I still, yeah. Yeah. we live in a very divided world, there’s a lot of division in marriages. A lot of spouses feel like they’re competing against each other. When you envy or feel like you’re in competition with your spouse, like you have to prove something, it’s very easy to get condescending towards your spouse, right?
And those. situations.
Tony: Absolutely. Dude, that’s, that’s really good.
Dan: yeah, love then is very, is very precious commodity.
I like how Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount says essentially, Hey, anyone can love their friends, but to love your enemy, that’s, that’s what you’re called to do, right? It’s easy to love someone. They love you back, but it’s harder to actually genuinely invest in someone, care for someone when there’s no guarantee of return in that instance.
Is there a story and experience from your own marriage where you’ve had no guarantee of return yet you found it with the courage within you to really love?
Tony: Yeah, and I may get choked up. Um, so in the six pillars of intimacy, one of the big questions we always ask, and even on the one extraordinary marriage show, we always ask is what can I do? Cause we can’t, as much as we love our spouse to conform to what we want them to
Dan: I
mean, life would be a lot easier, right? If it did.
Ha ha ha
Tony: you said, they would just love us
Dan: ha ha ha
ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Tony: happen. So it’s a, what can I do? Yeah. And so this is some years ago, but we lost our second child, um, at eight, at 18 weeks gestation. So at least I had to give birth
Dan: Mm
Tony: it was a really dark time. So our boy was at the time was two years old. and Elisa and I just know how to deal with this.
I mean, we’re talking, this is 19 years ago. We didn’t have the conversations that we do now. Right. so a lot of isolation, not sure what to do, where to go. And Elisa went into a depression and I was the one who was Taking care of the house and making sure she’d get up and making sure she would take a shower and still running. Uh, we had another business at the time. So I was running the business and taking care of our, our, our two year old. And there came a point where had to choose to love her and I didn’t know where she was. So I’m glad I continued to make that choice
Dan: Yeah,
Tony: she was going through her own stuff, right?
Dan: right.
Tony: But it was me making that choice to love her no matter where she’s at, support her, encourage her, bring hope to her. and it took about two years for us to get back to this place. I’m not saying it was great, not saying it was even
near
Dan: yeah.
Tony: but we got back to a place where she was the woman I married. And, uh, I’m glad because I think a lot of times you want to just give up in those moments and it’s easy to, and there were probably times in that two years that I did give up and probably throw up my hands and exasperation and just going, I don’t know what to do anymore. I don’t know where to be. And I actually, I remember a time being very, very angry
Dan: Yeah.
Tony: of that. so. that was a choice and, um, I wouldn’t want to live life without [00:45:00] her. So, you know, but that was a tough, tough time in our lives.
Dan: That was really good. Thank you.
Tony: Yeah.
