Broadly speaking, men are generally more interested in sex than women. However, there are exceptions. Some estimate that 20 to 30% of married couples are in marriages where the wife is the one with actually the higher libido or the higher sex drive. However you want to call it, higher desire wives have a unique challenge that higher desire husbands don’t have, as well as having many similarities and challenges in just having libido differences in the marriage that both a higher and lower desire couple faces.
My guest today is Cat Roebuck. She’s a fellow sex and marriage coach, and she’s an expert when it comes to living as a higher desire wife and the challenges associated with that. And I’m so lucky to have her on my podcast today. She also happens to be my cousin!
In this episode, we’re going to talk about how to better understand sexual desire, differences in marriage from a higher desire wives point of view. I particularly liked the discussion about how to love with our sexuality or through our sexuality and not just treat our sexuality as a reward for good behavior or on the other side of love.
It’s actually a way we can love others. Also, you’ll gonna like her black belt sex tip at the end!
Resources:
December’s “Get it On-a-thon” Fundraiser: Get Frisky for Fertility!
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Transcript
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Dan: Broadly speaking men are generally more interested in sex than women. However, there are exceptions. Some estimate that 20 to 30% of married couples are in marriages where [00:01:00] the wife is the one with actually the higher libido or the higher sex drive. However you want to call it. Higher desire. Wives have a unique challenge that higher desire husbands don’t have as well as many similarities of the challenges of just having libido differences in the marriage that both a higher and lower desire, couple faces. And my guest today is cat Roebuck .
She’s a fellow sex and marriage coach. And she’s an expert when it comes to living as a higher desire wife and the challenges associated with that. And I’m so lucky to have her on my podcast today. She also happens to be, my cousin can tell I’ve got some really smart, extended family.
Somehow I missed that gene, but, you’ll get to hear from her today.
In this episode, we’re going to talk about how to better understand sexual desire, differences in marriage from a higher desire wives point of view. I particularly liked the discussion about how to love with our sexuality or through our sexuality and not just [00:02:00] treat our sexuality as a reward for good behavior or on the other side of love.
It’s actually a way we can love others. Also, you’ll gonna like her black belt sex tip at the end.
This December, I want to invite you and your spouse to join us and our first, get it on a Thun. This is a fundraiser that we’ve partnered with faithful family foundations to raise money and awareness for couples that are, uh, struggling to have a baby. So another way of calling is we want you to get frisky for fertility this December. And how it works is you and your spouse pledge.
Let’s say a dollar for every time. You’re going to get it on in December. And those donations a hundred percent go towards a worthy couple to hopefully have a baby by next year, Christmas. More details will be available here in the show notes on a link to our webpage.
We also have our upcoming couples retreat in March, and I would love it.
If your circumstances allow for you to join us, this is an in-depth look at intimacy in your marriage. And [00:03:00] we also have a lot of fun at the same time. All those details are on the, get your marriage on.com website.
Catherine, welcome to the Get Your Marriage On podcast. How are you?
Cat: I’m doing great and I’m excited to be here.
Dan: I’m excited, too. We’ve known each other for a very long time, and we finally get the opportunity to do this together. And I’m really excited about today’s topic, too. So what’s it like being a higher desire woman? What are the challenges in our society?
Cat: The most difficult thing is just feeling like there might be something wrong with you because you’re going against the cultural stereotype or the norm.
And so there’s a loneliness to it. I actually think this is true for both partners that the lower desire husbands have the same type of loneliness
where, if you’re hanging out with friends and the topic of sex comes up, you’re going to feel like the odd one out. You’re going to feel like there’s something wrong with you.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Cat: but for women, there’s so much emphasis on the idea that [00:04:00] your partner is always going to want sex with you. And
Dan: You’re being pursued all the time and everything, right? Uh huh.
Cat: yeah. And that that’s sort of fundamental to your femininity, to your appeal or your desirability. So if you, if that’s not your situation,
then you can start to feel hopeless about is there something fundamentally off
in this dynamic? Well, I don’t think there’s something fundamentally off, but it does set you up to be thinking that way. That’s one of the big, the big, big challenges is just getting to a point where you even feel understood
Dan: huh.
Cat: Other people by yourself, by a coach or therapist that even in a therapy setting, you can run into a lot of kind of easy solutions.
Oh, Oh, it must be a hormone thing. Have his testosterone levels checked, you know, that kind
Dan: Yeah, that’s so easy. They say it all the time. Right. Uh
Cat: that’s the only possible explanation here. or maybe it’s a porn habit, [00:05:00] that’s the problem. There’s just like, people reach for these simple answers on this that do a real disservice to being able to solve or improve the dynamic.
Dan: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. So what does help with the dynamic?
Cat: It’s not that different from
Dan: Any other higher, lower desire? Uh huh.
Cat: It’s not really that different. It starts with accepting that this is based on choice. That you’re not
entitled to another person wanting you. And it isn’t necessarily a message about you. It might have something to do with you. It might not. But at its core, the desire differences are a normal part of a committed relationship, and they aren’t a sign that something’s gone wrong.
Dan: Another thing I heard once is, desire, high desire, low desire in a relationship isn’t an accurate way of putting it. It’s higher desire, lower desire. It’s always relative. Kind of like, Catherine, if you and I were to stand up. [00:06:00] face to face, standing up against each other, one of us is going to be taller than the other person, likely, right?
Yet, you could be in a totally different setting and you’ll be taller. I’m assuming I’m taller than you, but assuming like you’re in a different setting, you’re going to be taller than someone else. It’s it’s like you married a person where you have higher desire than that person, but it could have been a very different scenario.
Had you married a different person, you could have been a lower desire person in that relationship.
Cat: It can even change within one relationship
where I’ve actually been on both sides of it.
Um, which is interesting because there’s different things that are challenging on each side of it. there’s a little bit of sadness to being lower desire in a relationship because you feel like you’re holding up this good thing in a way.
You know,
Dan: Yeah, who are lower desire would If they could just snap their fingers and raise their desire level would
right. Yeah. If it was that easy. Where’s the where’s the magic? Pill, where’s the food I should eat? [00:07:00] Yeah, I got a question on that on Instagram, too Are there any for sure fire libido boosters out there? You’re
Cat: that is interesting is there’s this assumption that more desire is better And a real turning point for me in lowering my anxiety and resentment was starting to look at what’s the matter with me that I so badly want to go get rejected. That I cannot resist this scenario. I know how it’s going to go. And I am so into it, apparently,
Dan: for punishment, that’s all
Cat: really, genuinely, and, and to start to think about it that way and be like, Do I just really like getting turned down, you
Dan: Uh
Cat: why am I so into this? it actually, well, it lowered my desire ultimately,
but that was the way it needed to go because both higher [00:08:00] Your your level of desire can be artificially high or low due to like anxiety or regression factors So it’s not always coming from a good place
And there’s an assumption when you are higher desire that this is coming from a good place and what your partner is doing is not well, not always.
Dan: That’s a good point. I worked with a higher desire wife once where she’s higher desire because it’s validation seeking for her. She loves feeling pursued. She loves the way her husband talks to her in sex. She feels really pretty and wanted and she hasn’t quite developed how to at that point, how to, You know, stand on her own two feet and to self validate those feelings, right?
Always look to the, her husband to do that. So she would pursue sex a lot, because it was very validating, but it turned into a chore or a job for him to make her feel good. And so he would withdraw and the more he would withdraw, the harder she would pursue. So it became a pursuer distancer dynamic. And [00:09:00] so then she’s proud of herself being for being higher desire, but we got to also ask why, why is a person higher desire?
Cause we just blanket assume it’s good to have a lot of desire. And I think most generally people do think that, but why, why are you higher desire? Cause that matters a lot. You need to look at that.
Cat: And what is it that you are ultimately desiring because it might be. That like you said, you really want validation.
What, what you’re really after every time you seduce your partner is to hear them say that they love you, that they’re into you.
Dan: Right, right. It’s like mirror, mirror on the wall. Tell me, tell me I’m the fairest of them all.
Cat: Yeah, no, that’s beautiful. Right. And so that is not the same thing as having high desire for loving your partner through sexuality. I don’t
Dan: Yeah, right. that’s good. And as we have sextember coming up, that’s a good reminder. It’s, sometimes we’re higher desire because we want [00:10:00] to meet a quota. Or we want to check something off or accomplish a goal. And I mean if both people are into it, that’s fantastic. But,
Cat: sexember, this is like a daily sex challenge or something or what is
Dan: It is, it’s a, yeah, uh huh, yep, making September the sexiest month you’ve ever had, yeah, sex
Cat: Okay. All
Dan: some, some people do pursue it that way, and it, but, uh, you want, you want it to be highly intimate and highly erotic, both, in your interactions, so.
Cat: Right. Well, um, what I find over and over with people who are higher desire is that frequency is not really the solution that there’s much more satisfaction in having great sex once a week than having okay sex five times a week.
so really kind of letting go of some of the expectations that you put on it as well of if you’ve just got a number in your mind or something like that. There, there can be a place for [00:11:00] that sometimes,
but it’s also easy to just get hooked into a way of measuring something instead of checking in with how this is really impacting you and your partner and your marriage.
Dan: hmm. You said something just a moment ago. You said really loving someone through your sexuality. Tell me about that. Some people that’s not such a foreign concept to them or cause they’ve probably never allowed themselves to be loved, you know, sexually or they don’t know how to love through their sexuality.
What’s that like?
Cat: Well, that’s what it’s really for as far as I’m concerned. If, if you look at like, why are we doing this? it isn’t typically about procreation doesn’t take that many times. It isn’t typically about managing a physiological urge or something either because you could handle that other ways.
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: It really does come down to something you’re doing relationally.
And if what you’re doing relationally. [00:12:00] isn’t about loving each other. Uh, you’ve got a problem, but it is very common. It’s not, it’s not an unusual problem to have. It’s extremely common to be having sex for some other reason than to express real love for your partner. But this is where The, quality of what’s in your mind can really impact what you’re doing.
That if you’re touching your partner and you’re thinking about, how they’re thinking about you,
you’re thinking about if they’re judging anything you’re doing, am I taking too long? Do I look fat from this angle? You know,
that is not going to be bringing a lot of. If you are touching your partner and you’re really thinking about how much they mean to you, how much you value having them in your life, how curious you are about what’s going on in their inner world.
Not in because you have to have it be something validating, but because you’re, you want to know them. That’s the intimacy piece. It’s like, I really want to understand [00:13:00] you. And that kind of quality, even if you don’t change anything about your physical technique, is going to make the interaction so much richer, so much sweeter, and it can be difficult for people to let it in.
Like you said, it can be difficult to let yourself be loved that way.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Cat: it can really stretch you, but in a beautiful way that’s really promotes your personal growth
Dan: Yes.
Cat: development. I
Dan: in my men’s coaching program, are in a relationship where the default has been, I want sex and she doesn’t. For, for so long that, They’re almost apologetic to their wife that they want to have sex with them because it feels like an imposition how does one change their thinking from that kind of an attitude where I’m imposing on my wife for Wanting to have sex with her too.
I am loving her through my sexuality
Cat: think there’s two pieces there. One of them is just being able to validate your [00:14:00] own desire as a good thing. And you have to be honest with yourself about whether it is a good thing, because
if, if you are treating your partner, like they’re, just kind of a, tool to help you sleep better at night or something, then that’s not great.
Dan: Yep. A pacifier. Uh huh.
Cat: Yeah. If you look at, like, everybody I know who got married, got married to have sex, like not as the only reason they did it, but they got married planning to have a sexual relationship. There may be some couples out there that that’s not the case.
Uh I actually haven’t run into any so far.
Dan: Uh huh. Right. Uh huh.
Cat: you’re not doing anything untoward by saying, Hey. This is a sexual relationship. That’s what we agreed on.
are, if you’re saying like, this is a sexual relationship, that’s what we agreed on. Therefore you have to do it whenever, however I want, but just wanting to deal with sex in your marriage is nothing to apologize for and nothing to feel bad about,[00:15:00]
um, being unwilling to collude in avoiding this just because it makes you anxious or causes some conflict or something. It’s a good thing, even if your partner doesn’t like it,
you know,
Dan: hmm.
Cat: to take a stand for, this is something we actually have to handle for the good of the marriage.
Um, that’s a dignified position. And then the other piece is really paying attention to if I’m going to love this person, I have to be attuned to them.
Dan: Mm hmm.
Cat: I have to actually pay attention to what happens to them emotionally, physiologically. When I’m touching them or when I’m talking to them, I tune in on the level of, can I feel my partner’s heartbeat? Can I feel changes in their skin or muscles from how I’m touching and what I’m saying? And it really makes a difference to be paying attention at that level. And it’s related to the feeling while touching [00:16:00] exercise, but just to when you’re touching your partner to be thinking about this as I’m sending love, like, through my body, through my hands into them, and just to be thinking that way, changes, um, the dynamic. So there’s that and really being able to track what’s happening for your partner.
You know, if they’re not receptive at all, can you challenge them on this in a way that’s collaborative that is not making this a them problem, but is also dealing with what is hard for you about being sexual with me? what are the kinds of thoughts that come up for you are the kinds of messages you’re getting from me or You know, can we take this on as something that we have to handle together and not as something that you lower desire person have to go away and solve on your own
Dan: Yeah,
yeah.
Cat: back to me when you’re fixed,
you know,
Dan: Right, right.
Cat: or I know all the solutions.
That’s an easy place to go when you’re higher desires. I know all the solutions. Just follow my 10 point plan.
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: Um, and we’ll have you fixed up in no time, right?
Dan: Right, right. [00:17:00] Why doesn’t that go over very well?
Cat: who doesn’t love to be a project, right?
Dan: No, no one does. Yeah,
Cat: in the bedroom where it’s, it’s like very exposed, very intimate. And you’re feeling like you’re being evaluated, and graded. So yeah.
Dan: not at all. Any personal experiences around this whole topic of talking to your spouse about your sex life that you’re willing to share?
Cat: Well, a real turning point for me was when I realized that a lot of the sex I had initiated Went poorly for both of us. And when I really started to take that on as a me issue, instead of looking at it as what’s wrong with him, that he’d turned me down, and started to look at what’s wrong with me, that I would be proposing things that I know neither of us will actually enjoy that much.
so that’s part of it is being willing to look at, is there a problem with my desire as the higher desire person? Is
there something in
Dan: the sex you’re offering in it, right? Is this, am I offering good sex?
Cat: Right. What are the meanings here? You [00:18:00] know, is this about do you love me or is this about I love you?
Dan: Right.
Cat: it’s about do you love me? Um, your partner’s got a good reason to be turning that down.
Dan: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.
Cat: I sometimes joke with clients about if they had proposed with the kinds of meanings that they bring into their marriage now, like, look, here’s the deal. I need sex three times a week and, uh, I want you to be the one to give it to me for the rest of my life.
Will you marry me?
Dan: Uhhuh.
Cat: completely kills the romance. And so we know this when we’re dating and we know that the romantic thing is like to really let your partner know how much they mean to you and to connect with them on that level where it’s about expressing your love.
Then as soon as you’re married, it can turn into you owe me.
Dan: Oh, that’s so good. I love that. That’s so funny. It’s so true. Uhhuh.
Cat: Yeah.
Dan: You don’t get down one knee and say, will you love me
Cat: Right, right. But [00:19:00] that’s what we do all the time in marriage. We’re, we’re out there saying these very non-romantic things to our partner and being like, what is your problem?
Dan: Right?
Cat: into this.
Dan: That’s funny.
Cat: yeah. So a lot of it, it’s being willing to take yourself on about what you’re really doing here and how appealing it really is.
is there a reason that a, a prudent, reasonable. Good person would say no to what you’re offering,
Dan: Mm hmm.
Cat: really looking at that.
Dan: Right. That is so good.
Cat: And then paying attention to another thing I see is that the lower desire partner sometimes just has like a different style
and of what they like. And that you may not be as accommodating of that as you think you are.
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: So really making room for, you know, if I tend to. Want this to be like, you know, we’re trying all these different things every time and my partner is more about like Can we slow this way down and have some nice music playing and [00:20:00] candles and stuff? How often am I really doing it their way?
Dan: Uh huh. Right. Right. So, in a way, you do adapt to the lower desire spouse’s style. Like,
for example, let’s say you could have sex in the morning or the night. But your spouse is only a night person, then you’re not going to demand that they get their act together so that you can have it in the morning.
Every time you’re going to the wise thing to do. It’s for the higher desire spouse to go on the schedule of the lower desire spouse. And that, that, that works. It’s very practical, right?
Cat: hmm.
Dan: So that’s kind of what I think what you’re talking about.
Cat: Yeah But doing that without thinking that your way is better, which is a really easy trap to fall
Dan: Yeah, right. Mm. Yeah.
Cat: So really, really being interested in why that works better for them.
Dan: Right. Mm. Good, good. good. All right, Catherine, I want to hear your black belt sex tip. [00:21:00] This is a sex tip that this is for couples that already have a good marriage that want to propel it to their next level. What’s one tip you would give them to really take sex next level?
Cat: I would say pick your favorite sexual memory of the two of you
Dan: Uh
huh.
Cat: it out
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: and really emphasize what you liked about it.
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: going to be super exposing for most people, even if you’ve got a good sex life.
Dan: Uh
Cat: Um, but to let your partner know, you know, when I think about us, this is what I think about.
Like
Dan: Uh huh.
Cat: this is the scene and here’s what stands out to me. I remember this one part of it, you know, this is, that was the peak for me and why I think that was. Um, that can give you so much insight into your partner’s erotic map in their mind. And that can really drive intimacy and can also help you create more peak experiences going forward. Cause you can’t always predict what factors matter most to someone. Maybe like smell [00:22:00] is a huge deal for them and you are not a person who cares that much about that. And you never considered that that might be a big factor.
Dan: Right.
Cat: or maybe you said something that just really, Like landed for them really, really hit. And it’s not something that you realized landed differently from the other sweet things you say, or the sex things you say in bed. So yeah, I’d say that you, you wanna get into your mind if you wanna expand on good sex and make it fantastic, you want to be bringing more of your mind into it and sharing that with your partner and then asking them to do the same.
Dan: Mm hmm, that’d be good. What a great exercise. I love it. Thank you. Anything else you want to share about high desire wives?
Cat: Well, the other thing I would be thinking about is what kinds of messages you are sending in general in your marriage about, masculinity, because that’s one of the things that can be difficult about being the lower desire man is that it can come with this real [00:23:00] hit to their sense of masculinity. Same way being higher desire woman can be a hit to your sense of
Dan: Femininity. Yeah.
Cat: But you want to be sensitive about that. Like you want to really be thinking about, if I want my partner to be more assertive and I want them to be more passionate and stuff, how am I handling it when they do that? And it might be in totally other areas,
Dan: Mm hmm,
Cat: really looking at like, do I treat them like the kind of partner that I want them to be?
Dan: right.
Cat: jumping in and telling them I know how to do it better and, you know, it just. If you’re taking charge everywhere and you want your partner to take charge in the bedroom, that might be a tough ask.
Dan: Mm hmm. Yeah Great That was so good. Where can people go to learn more about you and what you do?
Cat: Well, I work with adults and couples, so individuals and couples, and you can find me at catrobach. com or you can email me at cat at catrobach. com.
Dan: Very good. Thank you.
Cat: Thanks.
[00:24:00]
If you want a more meaningful sexual and intimate connection in your marriage, I invite you to check out my, get your marriage on program.
Dan: Over a hundred couples have said this program packs tremendous value and has helped their intimacy grow to the next level. Now go get your marriage on.
