This episode is all about priming your mind and relationship for great sex.
Years ago, Dr. Morgan Cutlip, who is my guest on this episode today, made her first appearance on my podcast, (and if you want to listen to it, it’s episode number 50). What she taught me then about the mental load made a deep impression on me.
The mental load as it’s often called, is this invisible, never ending to-do list, that is usually carried more by the wives than husbands in marriages, even if both spouses are working. It is the ever present mental load of things that are still works in progress that occupy the back of our mind.
Not surprisingly, the mental load issue carries its effects into the intimate relationship, and this is what we get to explore today in depth on today’s episode with Dr. Morgan Cutlip.
I read her recently published book called A Better Share: How Couples Can Tackle the Mental Load For More Fun, Less Resentment, and Great Sex. We especially get to explore the great sex portion of her book in this episode. 🙂
I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Morgan Cutlip!
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Our team has put together a great resource to help you tackle the mental load in your relationship! And it’s on sale for the month of May. Check it out!
As always, if you’re looking for help to take your marriage to the next level, check out our Get Your Marriage Program. Let us help you be the next success story!
Disclaimer: The opinions and values expressed by guests on the Get Your Marriage On! podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and values of the host. Appearance on the podcast does not imply an endorsement of the guest or their products by Get Your Marriage On or its host. While we work hard to bring you quality and valuable content, listeners are encouraged to use their own best judgment in applying the information or products discussed on this podcast.
Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors or inaccuracies. For the most accurate and complete experience, we recommend listening to the full podcast episode.
Episode 239
Dan: Years ago, Dr. Morgan Cut Lip, who is my guest on this episode today, made her first appearance on my podcast, and if you want to listen to it, it’s episode number 50. What she taught me then about the mental load made a deep impression on me. The mental load as it’s often called, is this invisible, never [00:01:00] ending to-do list.
That usually is carried more by the wives and husbands and marriages, even if both spouses are working. It is the ever present mental load of things that are still works in progress that occupy the back of our mind. Not surprisingly, the mental load issue carries its effects into the intimate relationship as well ever being the middle of enjoying love making.
And the next thing you know, you’re wondering about whether or not you have enough milk in the fridge for breakfast. Or what your kids are gonna put in their lunches for their upcoming field trip. And when you think about the field trip, you think, oh yeah, did I ever sign that permission slip? Oh, and that reminds me I need to talk to my, uh, student’s teacher about their grade.
So you make a mental note about needing to talk to their teacher and anyway. Oh yeah. We’re right here with my spouse. We’re naked, we’re bodies are tucked into each other and we’re supposed to be enjoying this moment. Well, maybe I’m the only one that’s ever experienced that before. At any rate, this is what we get to explore today.
In depth on today’s [00:02:00] episode with Dr. Morgan Cut lip. I read her recently published book called A Better Share How Couples Can Tackle the Mental Load For more fun, less resentment, and great sex. We especially get to explore the great sex portion of her book in this episode. And I’ve got something special just for you, my listeners, my team and I created a resource to help you tackle the mental load in your marriage so you can have a better sexual relationship too.
It is a resource and a how to guide that would make for a great date night. It’s tricky for couples to know where to start when it comes to sharing the mental load better in the marriage.
So we’ve taken all the guesswork out for you. What we’ve done is, among other things, created this. Post-it note templates. You put blank post-it notes on these templates in that you get in the kit, you feed it through your printer and it’ll produce over a hundred conversation starters and you can put these post-it notes on your wall in your bedroom and spark conversations around getting better at sharing various aspects of your relationship.
Anyway, this resource is on sale on our [00:03:00] website and the link is in the show notes below.
I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Morgan. Cut lip.
Dan Purcell: Dr.Morgan, welcome, back, I guess, to the Get Your Marriage On Podcast. How are you?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: I’m doing great. How are you?
Dan Purcell: Good. I have in my hand a copy of your latest book, A Better Share, and it’s fantastic. By the way, I hope
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: thank.
Dan Purcell: listening to this episode buys a copy, but the tagline is how couples can tackle mental load for more fun, less resentment, and great sex.
Which begs the question, Morgan, have you always had a great sex life?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Well, thank you for having me. It’s so great to be here. Um, yeah, so, okay. Funny story. It was, it was not many years ago, I actually was on this sort of path in our relationship where I was regularly begging my husband to take me out on a date. Uh,
Dan Purcell: Uh,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: as we know, like when you have kids, things just get busy and it’s hard to find time.
And I was regularly like, can we just go out? Can we just go to dinner? Can we do So we finally, [00:04:00] yes, I need some romance. Like, please, I need to remember what this feels like, the two of us. And, so we finally, he sets up this date night, we go out to this really nice Mexican restaurant and um, we’re sitting there and I remember he says to me, I need to talk with you about something.
And my husband is a man of very few words. Mm-hmm. And so anytime he’s like, I gotta talk to you about something, I immediately perk up. I’m like, tell me what’s the gossip? Fill me in, what’s the juice? I want it all. And um, he leans in and he’s like, I’m not very happy with our sex life. And it was such a record screeching moment for me, uh, in our relationship because.
Dan Purcell: you’re expecting
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: No, and like thanks for ruining a date night and thanks for teasing me with the prospect of good conversation. So I felt, I felt really kind of like tricked a little bit, but I remember [00:05:00] just, you know, my first response was a little bit of defensiveness.
Dan Purcell: Uh
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Because, you know, I, I am like very self-aware and very aware that I, I tend to have the lower desire in our relationship.
And I keep track, I keep track of how often we have sex. He’ll be like, it’s been like two weeks. I’m like, we have sex three times this week. Like, I’m like, I’m, I’m remembering. And um, so I said to him, I was like, oh, okay. Okay. I, you know, I feel like. We have sex quite a bit. So what, what do you mean? And, uh, he goes, you know, it’s not the amount, it’s not that it’s not great, it’s that you just don’t seem that into me.
Dan Purcell: Uh,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: this was sort of the. So your question, have I always had great sex according to my husband? Not always, but it was really this psych launching point into a really meaningful conversation in our relationship and ultimately some pretty massive changes in our relationship. And you know, [00:06:00] after I did quite a bit of self-reflection, something that I.
Really realized was that, you know, he needed more enthusiasm for me in the bedroom, but I was having a hard time tapping into that enthusiasm because I felt like I didn’t receive much of that outside of the bedroom.
Dan Purcell: Yeah, he needed to be more enthused out of the bedroom too,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: yes.
Dan Purcell: is what, from what you could see, right?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Well even, yeah, and even, you know, this whole like begging for a date night. I remember as part of our conversation, I said to him, these are foreplay for me. This feels like we have this time to connect and you’re pursuing me and you desire to be with me in other ways besides in the bedroom. And so, uh, it really opened up a deep and meaningful conversation to shift our relationship in some pretty significant ways.
Dan Purcell: But I am curious, so that date night, you know, revelation I guess you could call it to being able to put it in words that, wait, he wants more enthusiasm in the bedroom, and I want more enthusiasm [00:07:00] out of the bedroom. Was that in the same conversation or did that kind of evolve as you talked and got more clarity about what’s going on?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: No, that evol, that was not a great date night. Let’s just be clear. That date night, you know, you know that moment where you’re like in a conversation and all of a sudden you’re in the weeds and you’re like, how do we get here? This is not gone as I, as I planned it to go. So that date night didn’t end so great.
We ended up both, I think, feeling hurt and him probably feeling like I didn’t hear it fully and me feeling like you don’t get it. And so it was a conversation we had to return to and I think it was probably the next day that we returned to it and was like, okay, let’s talk about, you know, what you are wanting in terms of enthusiasm and, and are you okay if I share.
Some of my perspective with you because you know, it’s a tricky in those conversations where you don’t want it to feel like, well, you came with a complaint and now I have all these complaints. Right? Or it’s this tip for tat thing. So yeah. So it took a little time for us both to [00:08:00] kind of settle, settle in, take a break, and circle back.
Dan Purcell: okay. There’s so many wonderful
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Micro lessons.
Dan Purcell: just that one thing, but
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Let’s just focus on,
Dan Purcell: Today. Now, in your book, you do a lot of research on what gets in the way of sexual desire for a lot of
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: and you mentioned three specific things. Can we
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: We dive into those. Mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: and I think they’re all tied to this concept of mental load and how to share it better.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah. So there’s three main ways that, the mental load specifically will impact desire. So just for a broad definition, the mental load is this sort of seemingly never ending, running to-do list. We carry around in our brains. That take up a bunch of space. and that also, um, tend to be filled with invisible tasks.
And because this stuff is invisible, it’s hard to hand off and it’s hard to get appreciation around. So the first way it relates to desire is that a lot of the mental load of home and family life and research shows this, it’s, it tends to fall on women’s plates. If they’re working part-time, [00:09:00] full-time, doesn’t matter.
It still falls on their plates. And so women are sort of walking around and a lot of our partners can attest to this experience of us, but we’re walking around with really full brains and we tend to carry all of this into the bedroom and what is in our head crowds out our ability to tap into our desire.
Dan Purcell: Uhhuh.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: it’s, it shuts down desire when we have these busy minds. So that’s the first thing. The second is that, you know, engaging in our sexual relationship is really vulnerable for a lot of women. You know, to get in the mood for sex, we have to feel connected. It’s like my date night request, or my husband, he teases me ’cause I do this thing.
He travels a lot and so he comes home and he. Sex is his bridge back to connection. So he comes home from travel. He wants to have sex to feel connected. and then we’ll be in bed and Right, you know, before whatever he initiates. I end up starting this really deep conversation and he’s like, he’s like, why do you,
Dan Purcell: unrelated. Right.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: [00:10:00] he’s like, why do you do this?
But it’s because I’m needing that connection before I can reach a place of vulnerability. And so. Maybe it’s just needing more connection that is, is necessary for a lot of women specifically to find their desire or it’s that they’re in a relationship where they might not feel heard. There might be some resentment developing or already developed, or they feel like maybe their partner isn’t somebody that they can reliably turn to.
When they need whatever, something to change emotional support when they’re making a request. And so it doesn’t feel safe to enter into this vulnerable experience. So that’s a second. The third is that, a lot of times when women try to talk with their partners around the mental load, it’s, it’s met with kind of three categories of responses, either defensiveness, dismissiveness, or this sort of hardship Olympics.
And when this happens, a lot of women will get louder. It. So they’ll start chasing, you know, and I, he’s not hearing me, you know, [00:11:00] I need you to do this. And so it creates a parent child dynamic. So the woman starts to feel like a nagging mother and her partner starts to feel like a child. And this is just, it’s just not sexy.
I mean, there’s really no other way to say it. And she’ll develop likely some resentment around the fact that she’s occupying this position now.
Dan Purcell: Yeah. And speaking of parent child dynamics, we are biologically programmed not to find our children sexually desirable,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Right, right, right. Yes,
Dan Purcell: in a marriage when it no longer is like, you know, husband and wife, it feels more like parent child. desire for that spouse is gonna really go out the window. So you gotta. Work on that through. something else.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: something else
Dan Purcell: know, you’re talking
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: about.
Dan Purcell: to bed with a full head,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: told me this once before about you gotta turn off the head to turn on the body for a lot of women,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: if you’re like the science research on [00:12:00] women’s fantasies, many of them have a fantasy of really being taken, really being, in a way, and
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: The
Dan Purcell: in the fantasy. The reason why they’re so appeal is I don’t have to think
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: fantasies. Mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: take care of anyone. I just attend to my pleasure and everything’s taken care of for me.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: that idea is really compelling and really appealing. So we need to take these concepts and take them seriously in our marriages if we’re gonna have a better sexual relationship and really work on building that trust, like you said, too, to having a, a relationship.
We can actually have this, vulnerable and exciting time together with,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Absolutely. I mean, it’s, it’s wild how it just starts to all kind of meld together. You know, I say sex is part of a relationship. It’s not separate from it. So when your relationship suffers. Your sex life is likely gonna take a hit and vice versa. And so, it’s so important that couples prioritize both what’s going on inside the bedroom and also [00:13:00] what’s happening outside of the bedroom.
Dan Purcell: That’s good. So this concept of sharing the load, is something I’ve been really interested in in my own marriage.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Hmm.
Dan Purcell: I just, and I, I can attest to how it’s really helped us in our relationship, but I really want to hear your tips, your advice. How do you even broach, let’s start there. How do you broach the conversation?
Let’s say you’re the wife or the listening in this podcast and you’re like, this is something we really need to address. I don’t wanna sound like a nag. But this is something where I want more enthusiasm. Please. Out of the bedroom, how do you broach or conversation starters, what are your strategies for that?
Yes. So part of it is a little bit of knowing and it’s a little bit of insight into what your partner is like, because there’s different frameworks you can use depending on how potentially defensive they’ll get. So let’s assume you have a partner who’s likely to get defensive. So let’s just take that worst case approach.
Uhhuh.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: also is very common. So I surveyed over 535 [00:14:00] women and one of the most common responses they get when they try to talk about it is defensiveness from their partner. So just know if you’re in that camp, you have a lot of company. So, the first piece is you want to really just set up the conversation in a way that will, will give you the highest likelihood of success.
And so it might sound something like this. If there’s something that’s on my mind that I really wanna talk with you about, if your partner’s gonna get all squeamish, you can write off the bat. Say, we’re okay. I love you. You’re safe here. You know, don’t worry, I’m not gonna be mad at you, but like I need to talk about something that’s very important is now a good time. So that first piece is you’re checking in. Almost always they’ll say it’s a great time even when it’s not, but it’s helpful to ask. The second piece is,
Dan Purcell: could I just comment?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: yes. There
Dan Purcell: Is there
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: ever a really good time?
Dan Purcell: a good time?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: No, no.
Dan Purcell: wanna rock the boat, and
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: I know it’s the worst time. It’s better.
I know the best time to talk about stuff was is when things are relatively good, but [00:15:00] nobody wants to do that because you know you’re standing, you know, this high likelihood of it becoming bad. So
Dan Purcell: Right,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: I’m sorry, but that’s the best time to talk. So the second piece is you can hedge the defensiveness. Now some people love this, some people hate it, so.
You know, user discretion advised, but basically you say something like, the thing that I wanna talk with you about has been on my mind and on my heart for a very long time, and I am feeling kind of nervous about bringing this up because I’m worried that you’re gonna respond with defensiveness. And it took me a lot of energy and courage to bring this to you.
And so if you respond with defensiveness, I’m worried that I’m just gonna shove it down and then it’s ultimately gonna impact our relationship. So do you think you can hear me without responding in a defensive way?
Dan Purcell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: gonna say yes,
Dan Purcell: Uhhuh,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: just,
Dan Purcell: Uhhuh,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: might not be, that might not actually keep hold them accountable.
But when they, when you.
Dan Purcell: do you mean [00:16:00] defensive? I get
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: But yeah. Yeah. You’re like, you’re doing it right now. Um, so you’re, you’re stepping in with a sense of vulnerability, which helps to lower defensiveness. You’re also putting it out on the table, calling it out. This might happen, which does two things. So it’s gonna slow down.
They’re thinking if they start to get defensive, they’re gonna be like, Ugh, I just got called out on this. Am I gonna actually prove them? Right? And we kinda have this inner stubbornness that shows up. So you’re hoping they’ll sort of stop it. Or they’re going to get defensive anyway. And if they get defensive anyway and they said they wouldn’t, you can say something along the lines of, can we hit pause?
Do we need a break? Or, what are you hearing me say right now? And you can real time edit the interaction by slowing down the conversation. So that’s all the setup. The next introduction piece is very important. And what is so important about this is you’re going to frame the mental load and all of the relentless amount of tasks that we have on our plates as [00:17:00] the shared enemy of your relationship.
We’re
Dan Purcell: Right. So we’re both
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: both on the inside. Yes.
Dan Purcell: and the tests were there. It’s not me against you. It is, we’re a team together.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: externalizing the problem, and this is not how the mental load is traditionally talked about. If you consume any social media on this topic, it’s usually pretty hostile. It’s kind of a, it’s a triggering topic for a lot of people. Uh, so some people don’t like that. I say this. And I’ll just say, and I, I don’t think that’s probably your audience, but I’ll just say, if you want to get to the end goal of finding fairness in your relationship, of your relationship, feeling good, then this is the best chance you have of having a productive conversation.
So,
Dan Purcell: That’s true.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: yes, and, and we miss that sometimes when we’re angry about things. So, if I had to script it out, I would just say. If you’ve probably noticed that I’ve been really stressed and overwhelmed. Usually our partners feel our stress tornado [00:18:00] self, um, and I realize it has a term, there’s actually a word for this.
It’s called the mental load, and it’s basically this running to-do list. I carry around in my head. You have one too. And the mental load of modern family life is almost too much for a family to be able to handle. And we are up against this and the way that we’re navigating it right now. Isn’t feeling good for me and I’m worried is affecting our relationship.
So I wanna talk together about how we can approach it in a new way so we both feel good about how we navigate this part of our home and family life.
Dan Purcell: That is so good. Alright. You have the conversation. How do you take apart the hundreds of things in your head? Do you dump it all at once and say, let’s fix this all in one sitting? Or what’s a good process for that?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: What’s been your
Dan Purcell: I guess?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah, I, my experience is that it’s not always about the logistics. And I think that is one [00:19:00] big go-to that we tend to think of when we think of the mental load. Oh, we just have to dump everything out and then we need to reshuffle who does what. So sometimes that’s the case. Sometimes some
Dan Purcell: going to my wife
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: saying.
Dan Purcell: oh, I can see you’re stressed. I’ll go to the grocery store for you. make me a list and then I’ll go do it for you. And
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: The idea.
Dan Purcell: stopping to make a list to
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: something to me doesn’t
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Help. No,
Dan Purcell: it. worse.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: no.
Dan Purcell: go to the store and walk up and down the aisles in the moment and go, oh yeah, I need that.
Oh yeah, I need that. Rather than try to come up with like,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah. It’s more work sometimes to
Dan Purcell: work
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: spell it out. To spell it out.
Dan Purcell: logistics is a solution and it’s not. There’s, there’s something more to this.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: There’s more to this. So yeah, a lot of times, um, the make me a list thing is very triggering for a lot of women for the very reason that you said. So there’s a lot of, I mean, there’s a lot of ways to approach this. So I’ll just give a couple of [00:20:00] examples. I mean, overall what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to make the invisible more visible to the partner who’s carrying less.
And there’s lots of ways of doing this. So anyway, lemme just give some very practical, kind of tangible tips. one thing is, is you may have to do the thing that you described. You, you list it out, you renegotiate. You look at all the nitty gritty and you’re like, you know, who’s picking up the, you know, throw blankets and folding ’em and putting ’em back.
You know, you’re looking at the nitty gritty maybe.
Dan Purcell: Yeah.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: However that’s very intimidating. I wanna throw out there that sometimes we can look at what we’re doing as a couple I. We can hand off one major thing that unpacks to include a lot of steps. So in the book, I give a really, like in the weeds definition of the mental load so people really understand it.
And part of the definition is that it each task, a home and family life unpacks to include a lot of little micro tasks that take up a lot of [00:21:00] space and energy. So for example, in my own marriage, my husband travels every week, so it’s really difficult to have like. Any 50 50, I mean 50 50 is out the window.
I actually don’t think that’s a great measure, but um, and to really even have him consistently be reliable about carrying certain things. ’cause he’s in and out. So we need more flexibility. So years ago we looked at stuff and I handed off finances. First of all, I have no business managing our finances.
I’m a creative person. I am not a business person. He’s in business every month. He was kind of like, how we doing babe? I’m like, we’re gonna make it. And he’s like, what are you talking about? Like, we’re fine. Where’s our money? So, um, I handed that off. But finances unpacks do include a ton of things. It’s, you know, it’s our investments, it’s our kids’ college funds, it’s calling insurance companies when we get billed incorrectly.
It’s, it’s all of these other tasks that actually take up a ton of space and energy. And so we didn’t need to do the nitty nitty gritty. [00:22:00] First of all, I just need to hand off one. Huge thing that actually took up a ton of space and energy and so, and a ton of time. So I just wanna put that out there. For couples who feel kind of intimidated by this idea of really getting into the weeds on this and say maybe there’s some big things that you can think about that you can hand off another thing.
There’s so many tips that I could give. So I’m really trying to be selective here. Okay. I’m trying to be selective. So I’ll say another thing is, um, okay, this is a call to action, usually to the husbands and, you know, usually, so I’m, I’m painting with broad strokes, but they tend to be the one who’s not caring as much in home and family life.
So when I surveyed women, one of the things they wanted the most was more initiative taking. I believe that in our relationships, one of the biggest mistakes we make when making a request is that we make a request for a change without a clear deliverable. And so we like say things like, I want more romance, or I want you to do more.
But [00:23:00] there’s like, what does that mean? It’s not clear. So what is initiative taking? Men or the non-fat partner need to step into initiative taking, and I have a formula for that. And my formula is knowing plus action is what is really required for initiative taking. This is why a lot of times women are really good at anticipating needs and taking initiative is that we have a very deep knowing of members of our family.
And so for for men to step into this, you have to increase your knowledge. So the way that you increase your knowledge in a very practical, measurable way is something that I call out in the book called The Buffet Formula. And it’s, um, really around the accumulation of knowledge just from Warren Buffet.
And the idea is, is that every night when you go to bed, you need to know something more than when you woke up that morning. So I challenge men or non-fat partners to get to know three things every [00:24:00] single day. One new thing about your wife. One new thing about your children if you have them, and one new thing about how your home and family life functions, if you do that every single day.
Dan Purcell: That’s
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: Uhhuh.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: for life, because that’s 21 things a week. And, and you’ll just notice it’s, it feels good to be in the know and you can love and care for the people you, you care so deeply about, so much better with so much more confidence and competence. So it really helps men feel good when they step into initiative taking instead of that, it’s called weaponized incompetence.
I don’t, I do not like that term very much, but a lot of men will do things like, or say things like, um. I know.
Dan Purcell: know
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yes.
Dan Purcell: familiar with weaponized incompetence.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: It’s not my favorite. I know that it happens and sometimes it’s weaponized. I just think just assuming intentions can be detrimental, but, but what happens a lot of times is that the, the men don’t feel confident and [00:25:00] so they’ll, they’ll say things like, I don’t know how to do it, or You do it better than me, but they’re out of the No, or they’ve tried and they got corrected, and so they’re like.
Why bother?
Dan Purcell: yeah, yeah,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: I don’t get it. Right. So, um,
Dan Purcell: when they use that to get out of stuff. Like I have a
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: to get out of stuff.
Dan Purcell: husband, right? He’s in the kitchen making cookies intentionally wrong, knowing his wife will walk by, say,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: are you doing? And then. Making cookies like, no, you’re doing it wrong.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: take over and make, make the cookies and everything so he can go back to playing video games
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yes. Oh gosh. Oh my gosh. Yes.
Dan Purcell: it was like, that was the plan.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: so malicious.
Dan Purcell: It is,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: I know. Yeah, I know. There are, it’s, it is funny and I know there are, I don’t remember my son. I caught my son doing it the other day and I was like, Uhuh, so I know that there
Dan Purcell: manipulative,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: it is. Manipulative. No, it’s not good. And [00:26:00] sometimes that’s what it is. Yep. They do.
Yeah. And so sometimes it, it is weaponized and sometimes it is this sort of pattern that’s developed based on previous interactions. and it develops into this almost like this, like helpless passivity in the relationship.
Dan Purcell: but there’s two sides to that. Like in the cookie example, the wife is the one stepping up and
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: oh, you’re so incompetent.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: have to do everything for you. Yet she’s still doing it.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yes.
Dan Purcell: keeps it So, uh,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Oh yeah. In the, a
Dan Purcell: there.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: percent.
Dan Purcell: two sides.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: In the, in the book, I have a line that says, with weaponized incompetence, you have to starve it, not feed it. So she walks by, she sees the cookies being made incorrectly, and she’s like, you might wanna double check your recipe. And she moves on through life.
Like, you don’t rescue, you do not feed that.
Dan Purcell: Yeah, exactly. good.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: just one more thought on
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: the classic funny example of like, no, you’re loading the dishwasher
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Mm-hmm.[00:27:00]
Dan Purcell: have to do it for you.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Mm-hmm.
Dan Purcell: And part of when you say, no, your job is dishes, you take it over. You
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah. Let go.
Dan Purcell: little bit too,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah. There’s, there’s,
Dan Purcell: do it,
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: yes.
Dan Purcell: their way.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: It’s wild. When I was, when I was writing the book, you know, one of my biggest struggles, I remember I had this huge whiteboard wall of just examples. ’cause there’s so much nuance in these situations. So the loading the dishwasher on one hand, um, you know, sometimes we need to check our expectations.
You know, is this really something? Is this the hill we wanna die on? Like, is this dishwasher issue really important? If it is the hill. Might be, it might be for some people it is.
Dan Purcell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: And so I, you know, I walk. couples through in the book, how do you really kind of check your expectations, explore them.
And I say, you gotta either let them go lighten up or they’re gonna have to level up. So you have these kind of options for how you navigate these things. But, um, you know, if, if the dishwasher is the hill [00:28:00] you wanna die on, let’s just say couple of things. Number one, maybe you just wanna take that on yourself.
If that’s important to you that it’s done in a particular, particular way, then you should maybe own that task and be okay with it. Or another option is, is that you might do some on the job training, and this is not something that I think should be ongoing because that’s the problem of when you have to keep sort of reminding.
Dan Purcell: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: But if you’re like, this, this dishwasher thing’s really near and dear to my heart, and so can we set aside 10 minutes where I show you exactly how I want it done and you can ask me any questions. And then we are done talking about this and now, and now, you know, and so I, there’s, there are options. If there’s a task that’s very near and dear to you, that is done in a particular way.
And then the other side of that is, is that sometimes when you hand stuff off. You gotta get out of the way. You know, you have to let, let each other have some grace, some space to just figure it [00:29:00] out, to find your own way, and to have a little bit of failure potentially, without being sort of, you know, walking on eggshells or act about it.
Dan Purcell: Great. So some people take this information that they’re in a marriage where they do want more sex, they want more enthusiasm with sex. And so they go, okay, I get it now.
I just need to pick up the house more. I need to do more, chores. They call it chore play is a new foreplay. Uh, and yet it’s not yielding the results in the bedroom like they would like.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah.
Dan Purcell: wrong there?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah, I believe, there was a study that said that, this sort of mental load piece can, negatively impact your impact, desire, and your sex life, but it won’t necessarily, um, bring it back automatically when it. When it’s repaired or done a little bit differently.
So a lot of times, you know, a couple will be in a pattern of things feeling kind of unfair or inequitable for a while. So then things start to erode. There’s some resentment, some [00:30:00] frustration, some irritation. The sex life starts to suffer and, and so there’s been this kind of slow deterioration of the connection.
So then the partner starts stepping in more, doing more, and they’re like, Hey. You ready? Like it’s like at this, at this point, there’s like a little bit of damage that’s been done to the relationship, and so you’re moving in the right direction, but it’s going to require both partners to sort of kind of like step toward each other.
So for the partner who’s now stepping up, doing a bit more, you’re gonna need to have some patience. Don’t empty the dishwasher and expect to be paid in the bedroom. You know, you’re gonna have to like. Work a little bit on creating a feeling of safety and reliability. Is this okay? He’s doing it now, but is he gonna keep doing it?
You know, you sort of have to prove out over time that they can trust you. For the person who’s developed some of this resentment, this frustration, you’re gonna have to take some ownership over reworking your attitude [00:31:00] towards your partner, how you see them, so that you can tap into feelings of warmth and connection again.
And that’s gonna require almost, it’s a long answer. So I’m not gonna get into the nitty gritty, but. It’s gonna require kind of revising the sort of narrative you’ve written around your partner. So you’re focusing now on some of the ways they’re really showing up for you instead of continuing to focus on the ways they’ve let you down.
So it’s a, it’s a rebuilding of your intimacy and your connection.
Dan Purcell: That’s good.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: In your book, you have these amazing
Dan Purcell: conversation starters about sex and how to work better together. As a couple have a better
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Okay? What’s one of them? This one is one of my favorite questions for couples to unpack, and it is, how do you think I feel about you when our sex life isn’t what you want it to be?
Dan Purcell: Okay. That’s it.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: sounds a little tricky, but
Dan Purcell: what
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: it is.
Dan Purcell: at is, I wanna see what your picture of your head, in your head of me is [00:32:00] when things aren’t going well. Right.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah, and I think, you know, it also helps to strip away some of the common dynamics that I see happening in relationships. If you paint with broad strokes, which is that. A lot of times women, and I was, this was part of my, my beginning story was part of what was going on with my lack of enthusiasm is I was treating sex with my husband as another item on my to-do list.
I’m doing it for him because he wants it three times a week. I’m, yeah, I’m tracking it. Tick, tick that box. Like, and, and he sensed that in me. And so it, it had become. almost like something I could get bugged by like another thing I’m doing for somebody else. And so when a couple will unpack this question, a lot of times what’s revealed from the partner who has a higher desire is that when our sex life isn’t where I want it to be, it feels like you don’t love me.
It feels like you don’t desire me and want me. And I think that is a conversation that couples really, really need to have, because it [00:33:00] offers a different perspective. It’s not like, oh, it’s this animalistic desire you have. You know, it’s, it’s actually not even necessary. I talk about sex sometimes, like people treat it like the appendix of relationships, like you just remove it and everything’s fine.
Like, I do everything else for you, aren’t you fine? And so. When they have this conversation, you can really see sort of like the heart of the matter, how sex really is a pathway to connection, how it’s pathway feeling, loved and safe in your relationship for a lot of people and how it needs to be mutually owned in the relationship.
And so, you know, to come full circle. Part of what I had to do in my own relationship with, with my husband Chad, was that I had to really shift my sort of thinking and my behavior around sex to not be something I do for him, but something I do with him that I get. Enjoyment and pleasure out of two. And when I could step into that more and he could step into, you know, really clearly [00:34:00] expressing how important this was to him, feeling good in our relationship and like I loved and cared for him and he stepped into our relationship, sort of management and, and home life more, uh, it made it easier also for me to find my desire.
And so, uh, I think that’s a really important piece. Couples need to, to kind of like peel away, to get at the heart of what’s going on in our sex life.
Dan Purcell: That’s good. Very, very good. Where can people go to learn more about your work, buy your book, and all those good things?
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Yeah, so my book is out and you can get it basically at any major retailer. Um, Amazon, Barnes and Noble Target. It’s also on Audible, so I was the narrator and on Spotify and you can learn more about me on my website. Dr. Morgan. Cut lip.com or Instagram? Do. It’s Dr. Morgan. Cut lip.
Dan Purcell: Very good.
Dr. Morgan Cutlip: Good. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me.
Dan Purcell: Thank you for listening to this episode, please share it along with our apps and timidly us. And just between us with their married friends. I promise [00:35:00] they will thank you for life. If you want a more meaningful sexual and intimate connection in your marriage, I invite you to check out my, get your marriage on program.
Over a hundred couples have said this program packs tremendous value and has helped their intimacy grow to the next level. Now go get your marriage on.
